# UCLA Screenwriting Admission



## dharmagirl (Apr 3, 2008)

I just got the email - I'm in for UCLA Screenwriting MFA!  Has anyone else heard yet?  

Good luck!


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## Icarus Ascending (Apr 3, 2008)

Yes yes! Greg Daubenspeck apparently pulled another of his late nights last night, which tends to produce good news.

I, too, am in for the UCLA MFA.

Congrats, dharma!

--Icarus


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## placebo (Apr 3, 2008)

I posted on the other topic as well but yes ”” I too received an email from Mr. Daubenspeck. Congrats to you both.

Are either of you set on UCLA or are you waiting on other schools? 

I'm waiting to hear from USC, I guess, but feel like that's just being greedy.


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## dharmagirl (Apr 3, 2008)

Congrats, placebo and IA!

I only applied to UCLA so I plan on taking it.  Let me know when you decide.  It would be great if we were all Bruins in the fall!


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## rola1981 (Apr 3, 2008)

Congratulations dharmagirl, placebo and IA.  I got into the MFA program too.  UCLA was the only program I applied to and can't wait to start in the fall.


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## Icarus Ascending (Apr 3, 2008)

Hey, Dharma--

Just out of curiosity (read: nosyness), why did you only apply to UCLA? What about its program gave it exclusive appeal? Why not USC/AFI/etc?

I'm just trying to get all the "bull" and "bear" pitches I can for these schools, supposedly because I'm so gosh darn comprehensive, but really because I suck in a big way at making decisions.

If you'd prefer to PM me, have at.

--Icarus


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## dharmagirl (Apr 3, 2008)

Ah, I don't mind.

I have to admit a lot of my reasoning behind UCLA is that I am from SoCal and I have always wanted to go there.  The sting from being rejected there from undergrad still hurts, but this makes up for it.  Plus, I plan on staying in LA and resident tuition the second year sounds great.

But in addition to that, everything that I have ever heard has been that USC is the best for production, UCLA for SW, especially for independent focus.  All of the professors have published books and I especially love Richard Walter's.  For me, there was only one choice.  If I hadn't gotten in I would have looked elsewhere next year, but I'm glad not to have to.

Good luck with the decision!


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## Jayimess (Apr 3, 2008)

Icarus, Placebo,

If you want info on my justification for choosing USC over UCLA and later AFI, let me know...I committed to UCLA but retracted it after getting off of USC's waitlist, and turned down AFI after getting offered admission later on.  (I was originally rejected by AFI, but I received several weird emails and phone calls stating "Errors Were Made," by the new admissions director...from the first year fellows I've met this year, it was pretty common across all disciplines...I dunno.)

I won't try to sway ya one way or another, I promise!


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## Jayimess (Apr 3, 2008)

PS.

I forgot to say CONGRATULATIONS, guys!


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## Icarus Ascending (Apr 3, 2008)

Jayimess,

Itavero! As your applicant twin (separated by a year), I would truly be interested in your bull pitch for USC--and in whatever reseverations you had about UCLA and AFI.

Thanks in advance,
Icarus


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## underground man (Apr 3, 2008)

Greetings,
With an e-mail from a gmail account, I am also accepted to UCLA's MFA screenwriting program (this morning.) I am also in for AFI's program (March 14) And as if these two are not enough of a good news, I had a phone call from USC asking question about my application. (same day-March 14)
I would love to hear from those who are in the same selection process. 
You can graduate from UCLA almost without any dept, but I guess you can make more connections in USC and AFI. 
I know more less what scripts I am going to write and I am sure I will have great classmates and professors in all these three places. I particularly would love to meet producers in graduate schools. And I know that AFI provides lots of opportunities to demonstrate your work to industry people, espacially agents. 
I always like UCLA, but now it got serious, I am trying to think more pragmatically. 
Anyway, these are my thoughts. 
How about you guys?

Thanks 
UM


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## Jayimess (Apr 3, 2008)

Here goes.

I got into UCLA flat out, with dang close to a full ride on out of state tuition.

I chose not to go there.

First off, it bears saying that I applied as a Screenwriter, a life long dream that I only studied for one semester...as in, I took the class, the final project was to write the first act of a feature, and my professor validated my dream in a voicemail that changed my path from that of an MBA (ironically, UCLA was another top choice) to an MFA with the simple words "if you finish this, you can get into USC or Columbia with it."

I chose not to apply to production programs because I've been a writer my entire life, and had limited production experience beyond thrown together films by friends and my work as a producer for a FOX affiliate's morning program, not counting dozens of gigs as a PA.

However, I happened to be in my first...and last...film production class during the application process, and my first project led to my class choosing me to direct our group project, and my final project came out pretty well ( google "SEVEN TURN" and "Student Filmmaker Contest" in quotes if you care to see it), which led to me being invited back after graduation to direct another group project...

Turns out I wasn't "just" a writer, I could fancy myself a filmmaker as well.

Sorry for the intro, but it influenced my decisions heavily, so I thought you should know where I was coming from.

So, I get into UCLA, waitlisted at USC.  Rejected with asterisk from AFI.

Throughout the application process, each school held first choice status for some time.

UCLA:

(+)
Top school (by any standard)
Good faculty (in my opinion)
Cheap, especially with the significant scholarship Hal Ackerman personally offered me
Laid back interview atmosphere implied intimacy within the program, student to faculty as well.

(-)
~When I asked if screenwriters were given the opportunity to work with the other disciplines, I was met with blank looks.  "Well, only if you seek it out yourself."  It was explained to me that I would crank out a feature per quarter...not much time for working on much else.
~When I asked if I could take production classes, I was met with more blank stares, and told that I wouldn't have time.
~Creepy obsession with my childhood during the interview that made me feel I was being chosen as a statistic, or for my Oprah potential.

Nonetheless, I accepted their offer of admission on the last possible day.

AFI

(+)
Phenomenal reputation
Stars as faculty
Constant collaboration
The tantalizing terror that is Boot Camp

(-)
~I felt that I was not experienced enough to enter their program.  It sounded like a working environment, in many regards...and I thought that I still needed more of an instructional approach.
~At the interview, I got a really pretentious vibe.
~At AFI, screenwriters are screenwriters and only screenwriters the entire time.
~An utter lack of scholarships, and an irksome focus during the interview on my ability to pay for the program that made me feel like I was applying to a shady modeling school instead of one of the top film schools on the planet.
~Very pricey.

USC

(+)
Long history
Top school (by any standard)
Great faculty (in my opinion)
First Pitch/First Look
The Trojan Mafia
A lifelong dream/obsession with the school, compounded by reading books about the golden era of Lucas et al.
The Peter Stark Program...these producers will want to work with me, I was certain.
CTPR 507:  All students are required to take this course their first semester, and it integrates the disciplines.  I met Starkies and PR kids that I still work with, who have introduced me to their classmates, leading me to multiple collaborations this semester, with plenty more in the works for the fall.
The Writer-Director track:  I found out about this after I was bumped off the waitlist, in my acceptance packet.  Seven emphases among the writing degree means that I would not be limited to just writing features...tracks from Showrunner to Video Games were waiting for me to explore them, and WD allowed a thesis package that included films, made under the guidance of the brilliant production faculty, and with USC's considerable resources.
~I'd worked on a USC thesis shot in my hometown the year before, and the people working on it raved about the program AND put forth the most professional production I've ever been on...and
I'd PAd quite a lot.  I was impressed!
~Encouraged collaboration...the 480/546 selections each semester beg fr production and writers to collaborate.  Five of my classmates saw their scripts produced this semester, and they do it EVERY Spring, EVERY Fall.
~The Stark Special Projects...similar, but for producers and writers, and only in Spring.  I'm currently in rewrites on a script as we speak for this grant.

(-)

Sooooo expensive, especially compared to the package UCLA offered.
Terrible location.  (in reality, it's not bad at all)
A kind of snobby rep among those who didn't go there.
Self-doubt...they waitlisted me instead of admitting me outright...maybe I wasn't actually good enough.



It came down to this, at its most basic.

UCLA:  No collaboration unless on my own initiative, nearly non-existent cross discipline flexibilty

AFI:  Tons of required collaboration, no cross-discipline flexibility

USC:  Plenty of opportunity for collaboration, required cross discipline study, and tracks encouraging crossing disciplines.


My mentor put it like this:

If you had gotten into USC outright and waitlisted to UCLA, then gotten bumped off, would you feel the way you feel now that USC has bumped you off?

The answer was no.

The cost sucks, but I've never looked back.

Everyone is different!  This is just MY story.


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## placebo (Apr 4, 2008)

This was helpful - thank you. What I like about UCLA is the focus on writing. What was sketchy to you sounded perfect to me. I have almost zero interest in production courses. I just want to work on screenplays.

Still, a couple of things attract me to USC, the various tracks in particular, especially the two you mention - showrunner and video games.

I also like the encouraged collaboration of USC. For example, I have an idea for a short film that I would love to share with a director to make while we're in school. It sounds like that may be more easily facilitated at USC.

It's almost a moot point, however, until/if USC gets back to me.


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## underground man (Apr 4, 2008)

Jayimess, thank you for writing this helpful post.

For me, the most important aspect of a film school is its ability to help students to showcase their screenplays to the industry and help finding resources to make them into movies.
Here is what AFI does:
NEW SCRIPTS BY AFI GRADUATES

Distributed at the Showcase screenings and mailed to hundreds of agents, managers and production companies, New Scripts by AFI Graduates is a publication listing the newest work of AFI Screenwriting Fellows.

SCREENWRITER'S SHOWCASE

Each year the Screenwriting graduates participate in a pitch night, which allows them the opportunity to present their scripts to representatives from the film profession including top agencies, management companies and production companies.

Does UCLA do these kind of things?

I found out that UCLA has Professor Jerry 
Katzman, former Vice Chairman of the William Morris Agency. But it is not clear what he does there. Perhaps I make an appointment with him and ask him.

I am sure USC does great things as well, but since I am not officially accepted there as of today, I will not worry about it.

Congratulations and good luck everyone!


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## Jayimess (Apr 4, 2008)

PLACEBO

USC encourages collaboration thorugh many different opportunities each semester.

And though we all have to take 507, it will only help you as a writer and storyteller...there are no classes to take here that will hurt you...the other production classes aren't required.  However, a showrunner requires additional production classes, just an FYI.

There are plenty of anti-production cats here that celebrated the end of 507 and never want to be on a set again, so either way, you'll fit in here...the key is flexibility.


Cool thing I just found out about, they are kicking off a new program this semester called "The Masters of Screenwriting."  It will be different each semester, but this time around it's James L Brooks.  These are the kind of things I love about USC... 

Also, USC has long promoted its writers....there's First Pitch each year at the Beverly Hills Ballroom, similar to the Showcase, and also the Script List, similar to AFI's New Scripts list...many scripts have sold through script list each year, though everyone likes to remember that the very first issue resulted in John Singleton selling "Boyz in the Hood."  The university has also just associated with a production company which wants to make four projects per year, varying from $500K to $3mil...exclusively by SCA students and recent alums...I'm going to the info meeting next week, I'm not completely sure on the details, but it sounds mighty cool...it's run by a few alums that have worked high up in studios and top agencies...


Pretty cool, if you ask me.


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## dharmagirl (Apr 4, 2008)

placebo, in my interview Hal Ackerman mentioned that UCLA has just started a showrunner track of their own.  It is only a couple of years old, so clearly not as established as others, but if you are interested in that you might want to follow up with the department.


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## Icarus Ascending (Apr 4, 2008)

Thanks, Jayimess. My own thoughts are fairly similar to yours with a few addenda:


AFI
+ Small, cozy, personal.
+ AFI actually DID offer me a substantial scholarship, which made me all warm and runny inside. Maybe they “get” my weirdo writing. I dunno. Point is, they like me, which makes me like them.
+ SWers come out with three features, at least one of which has gone through an intense semester of revisions.
+ Pitch-a-palooza or whatever they call it there.
+ A happy absence of Crit Studies BS.
+ My boyfriend and I could affordably live in a little house in Los Feliz. From some (affordable!) locations, I could even walk to school. The sheer cuteness of this scenario almost makes the decision obvious.

- Who was the last working SWer to graduate from AFI SWing? Seriously, anybody know? From what I can tell, their recent track record leaves a little something to be desired... Of course, it's hard to know: many working writers don't appear in IMDB because their pieces get stuck in development. 
- Nobody outside the film industry has ever heard of this school. I know that shouldn't matter, but... when I tell people about it, they say, “Oh, like the New York Film Academy?” It's depressing.
- The "crewing" requirement for screenwriters sounds vaguely like slavery. This is particularly true when it comes to second and third cycle films, on which all other fellows perform their respective crafts and SWers are "story editors" which I assume means "janitors."



USC (provided, of course, that they accept me)
+ Famous, world-renowned program
+ SWers seem to come out with a substantial body of (well-revised) work
+ "Get Pitch Quick" or whatever they call it there
+ Chance to work with the producers-of-tomorrow
+ Production opportunities
+ Mafia

- In the ghetto ("and his mama cries...")
- I've heard that the SWing program starts out painfully basic--as in, scene-writing exercises. Don't get me wrong: I think reviewing fundamentals is the height of good health, but I'd rather not pay through the nose for another thrilling round of Aristotle's lecture notes.
- The vastly oversized film program (100 production students alone every year... yegods...) leads me to wonder how much individual attention one gets.
- I read some silly article in a SW mag a few months ago that told me not to go to USC. The reasoning went something like this: USC is the McFilmSchool... everyone and his plumber went there”¦ if anyone in the industry finds out you attended, they'll just roll their eyes and figure you for another McScreenwriter... Yeah, it was the usual pointless we've-got-70-pages-to-fill-and-we-can't-do-another-article-about-Nora-Ephron's-cat screenwriting magazine crap, but sometimes that kind of thing haunts you”¦
- I have this hang-up (my therapist has another name for it) about not fitting in at USC. I don't know what exactly makes me feel that way. Oh, maybe it's because the buildings are called things like “Lucas,” “Spielberg,” and “Zemeckis.” See, I tend to write kind of oddball, talky, vaguely brainy stuff. I would be of absolutely no help to someone writing a script about space aliens, and I don't think they could be of much help to me.



UCLA
+ Rightly or wrongly, it seems to be regarded as the top SWing program in America.
+ According to my (admittedly imperfect) research, UCLA screenwriters tend to be more successful after college than either their AFI or USC peers.
+ You hit the ground writing. You write and write and write. For somebody who tends to hem and haw and BS around before I write anything, this could be really good for me.
+ Here's a minor point, but a nice perk: if I get graduate housing, I can live in Westwood for $1250 a month. Beat that.

- I've heard a number of things to suggest that UCLA's professors tend to be rigidly dogmatic--as in, “on page 17 of your screenplay, you must”¦” To say that I don't find that kind of thing helpful is like saying that the Hatfields didn't find the McCoys agreeable. If this is true, it's a deal-breaker. (Any insight on this matter, especially, would be appreciated.)
- First drafts are lovely and all, but... well, you don't win contests with first drafts. You don't sell first drafts. You don't impress people with your first-draft sample. And at UCLA, it seems, most people graduate with 5-7 first drafts they slapped out in 10 weeks AND THAT'S IT. Ouch.
- Due to its unusual schedule, UCLA breaks for summer about a month after USC, which makes it tough for UCLAers to get internships. Ugh.
- As Jayimess notes, screenwriters are isolated from all other film students at UCLA--oh, except for the hours and hours of Critical Studies they're forced to endure on the pedagogical theory that the Crit Studies classes are low-cost revenue streams for the school.


I feel certain that some of this is bunk. Not every one of these thoughts has been comprehensively researched and/or thought-out. I welcome any additions, corrections, and comments.

I appreciate anyone who has waded this far into the murky darkness which I euphemistically call “my decision-making process,” and I would grateful for any insight.

Thanks in advance,
Icarus


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## placebo (Apr 4, 2008)

Icarus,

I asked Professor Ackerman about theory classes (as the school's Web site makes it seem like students take several of them) and he didn't think that was the case. You take one or two, more if you want, he said.

On another note - I like theory classes. I feel like I know how better to construct a film because of the little exposure I had to critical studies as an undergrad. 

About student housing at UCLA - I inquired just yesterday and was told that the wait list is about a year out. Basically, if we wanted it for Fall '08, we should have let them know Fall '07. Maybe you were wise enough to do this. Pas moi.

PS - funny about the Space Aliens crack. Just the other day I came up with an idea for a big budget, summer tentpole movie about space aliens. Lest you think that's all the stuff I'm made of, let me assure you it's the only idea in my noggin associated with that genre or style of movie writing. I am excited to write it, though.


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## Icarus Ascending (Apr 4, 2008)

Hey, Placebo!

Thanks for your reply.

Don't get me wrong: I think Critical Studies classes are great in principle. I took some in undergrad, and I learned a lot. I think film studies are a vital part of any well-rounded liberal arts education.

It's just... I don't think that writing papers about self-portraiture in Fellini's oeuvre is what I need to spend the next 2-3 years of my life doing. It's not why I'm going to grad school, and I know it will just end up being an annoying tangent to my real studies. I believe UCLA only requires two Crit Studies classes, yes, but I'm told they're serious classes with heavy workloads. For whatever that's worth.

Re: housing. Interesting. According to the UCLA website, you can't even apply for housing until you've been accepted into a program, so no, I haven't applied for it yet. A year, huh? Good grief.

Re: space aliens. Don't misunderstand me; I have nothing against space aliens. (Why some of my favorite in-laws...) This isn't a snobbery thing; I just think summer-tentpole screenwriting is probably a pretty specific thing requiring a pretty specific program--one that wouldn't necessarily be of much use to me. Does that make sense?

--Icarus


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## Jayimess (Apr 4, 2008)

> Originally posted by Icarus Ascending:
> 
> AFI
> + Small, cozy, personal.
> ...



I'll only speak for USC.


1. Ghetto.

If a small town Ohioan like me isn't EVER scared on campus, you should rest assured that the UPC's bark is worse than it's bite...I guess it can get pretty hinky off campus on the south side, but nobody I know's ever been there.  The nearby area is almost exclusively students, and I drive in from the north west with no fear each day.  Stuff happens, sure...but that's everywhere.  I really thought I was going to be attending school in a war zone, but it's nuttin' to write home about....ironically enough, I come from a town similar to Old Orange, where Chapman is and had never been to LA...so I would be the most likely to be terrified had there been a poll, I believe.

2.  Scene writing.

It's true, it's basic, but not so painful, in my esteem.  Lots of scene writing, two short scripts in the first semester, but those scenes, and the characters within them bear fruit if you do them right...and you write the first day...three scenes, in fact, with ten minutes to do so.  

3. Oversized.

More production students mean more people to produce my work.  100 of them every year, and it takes them 3-5 years to get out.  32 (31 in my year) per year of us, and we're out in 2, maybe 3 years.  We have our own division, our own advisors, our own chair, our own everything...and we graduate students ALL know each other by name.  Each first year is paired with both a faculty and a second year mentor...so don't worry about individual attention.  It's there if you want it, but nobody breathes down your neck.

4. McFilmSchool.

I've never heard that before.  Not from any agent, and I've met several, and not from the many working alums I know.  In my experience, USC doesn't guarantee your awesomeness to anyone...it just gives you the opportunity to prove it when most wouldn't get that chance.  That's all I know. 

5.  Fitting In.

I never saw Star Wars, and I don't plan to.  I write insanely dark character driven "indie dramas," as one of my classmates calls them, and I must tell you, I haven't heard of a single classmate who is writing space alien tentpole summer hits.  That's honest and true.  We all write different films, but contrary to sorta popular belief, we didn't come here to learn to write blockbusters.



Re:  UCLA....

You won't get graduate housing.  Last year, they sent out a mass email at 11pm PST (2am EST) saying they had one guaranteed spot, first email the GA got secured it.

Don't get that?  Good luck getting away with living for $1250 in Westwood.  And it's pretty boring there, FYI.

The no rewrite thing bothered me too.  As one of my favorite profs here loves to say, writing is rewriting.


Re: AFI....

Los Feliz ain't cheap.  But...you can live there and go to USC easily...I can think of at least 12 cats that do.  I personally live in Hollywood...for $912 a month.  Beat that.

;-)


PS...we have to take Crit classes, but they *ahem* guide us into the ones that *ahem* fit our *ahem* needs best.


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## dharmagirl (Apr 3, 2008)

I just got the email - I'm in for UCLA Screenwriting MFA!  Has anyone else heard yet?  

Good luck!


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## sophiedog (Apr 5, 2008)

Hey Jayimess, (or other USCers) do USC writing applicants have to take the GRE? I think all USC masters film applicants do, but on the USC site it says some programs will make an exception. Is writing one of those exceptions? Thanks!


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## Jayimess (Apr 5, 2008)

Yes, we have to take the GRE, not so much for SCA, but for USC's graduate school.


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## KelMo (Apr 5, 2008)

Just a few quick notes in response to Icarus' post:

I'm not sure about "famous" screenwriters coming out of the AFI program, but I do know there are working writers. The one person I know who happened to graduate from AFI (about 2 years ago) is now writing the remake of Fletch ("Fletch Won")

Re: Jayimess's RE:

It's totally possible to get reasonable rent in Los Feliz.  I currently live about two blocks from the AFI campus (this is technically a "Hollywood" zip code as I live on the south side of Franklin and just west of Western). I pay $880 including parking. Other people I know in a 5-6 block radius pay similar amounts (these are all two bedroom roommate situations, it is a little more expensive to live alone).

Now that I've said all that... don't go to AFI! (I'm trying to work my way off the waitlist. hehe.)


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## sophiedog (Apr 5, 2008)

Thanks Jayimess!


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## Icarus Ascending (Apr 7, 2008)

Hey, all--

Thanks to everyone who replied. The feedback is extremely helpful.

--Icarus

P.S. This is a shameless attempt to bump up the thread so folks will continue to post +s and -s re: various screenwriting programs.


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## lucid (Apr 8, 2008)

Hey,

Congratulations to everyone who got in!  i also got my unofficial acceptance email last week.  

jayimess, you mentioned you got offered a scholarship for the program and I'm wondering when the offer came... was it mentioned before you got your official notification?  Any other ideas for funding, scholarships, etc?  also, is it possible to get anything like that for your first year at usc?  

I'm also appreciating all the plus minus posts.  Good luck to everyone on choosing the right program!


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## Jayimess (Apr 8, 2008)

The scholarship offer came from Ackerman himself, via personal emails, after I got my letter of admission.  Since I never went through the process of actually attending, I don't know the whole procedure for their financial aid stuff.

As soon as you are accepted, you can sign up for GRAPES, the UCLA graduate fellowship digest.  I still get the emails, and they're invaluable.

As for USC, first semester aid is all but non-existent.  I did get a scholarship, but I'm a rare case and I'm not willing to explain how I got it.  (sorry, no leeway on this one)  However, DAships roll in for us second semester, which pay off two credit hours and an hourly wage.  I believe 10 or 11 of my classmates got those.

We actually just turned in scholarship apps on Friday.  There's a ton of money to be had next year, so we'll see how it goes.


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