# Chapman vs. NYU



## zapzorak56 (Apr 26, 2008)

Hi everybody.  I'm a high school senior from the pacific northwest trying to decide between two film schools.  I was accepted to both Chapman University and New York University, and I'm having a touch time deciding between the two.  Any help or advice I could get would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 26, 2008)

NYU


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## armen (Apr 26, 2008)

If you can visit either one, I suggest you do. It all depends on what's right for you and by doing your research; you can get a better idea of which school that would be.

I have visited Chapman and I absolutely love it. Overall, I think it would be a better fit for me than NYU. They have an amazing building with great equipment and so much more.

Good luck and congratulations on getting in.


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## Winterreverie (Apr 26, 2008)

B. A. *rolls her eyes* seriously did Chapman reject you? Or did someone personally reject you who then went here? You are the most negative person I know about a school you've never went to or seen work from. That just screams personal vendetta. Why do you troll Chapman boards? Seriously, you haven't even STARTED film school yet and you are dying to make enemies from the other schools. Good Job!

zapzorak56
I think first you should ask yourself questions about the areas and the programs and the whole decision process will be simpler:

Do you feel more comfortable on the East or West Coast?
City or Suburb?
Small Campus or large -- not just the film school, but the whole campus?
What are you looking to specialize in?
Are you looking for and independent or industry outlook?


Once you answer those questions you'll have a pretty good idea where to go.

Also, check out the latest Film School Confidential, and LOAFS (Library of Annotated Film schools).

Both are great schools to come out of. Elite. You can't really go wrong so long as you consider what aspects of a program will make you happy and choose from there. Remember, this is a personal decision and what's right for someone else may not be right for you. Good luck on your decision. 

PS. Sorry about the outburst-- But I'm so tired of that dude above.


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## zapzorak56 (Apr 27, 2008)

Hey, no problem about the rant.

I'm a production major in both, but I'm really looking to specialize in writing.  Do you think that gives one of the schools an edge?


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

Winter,

First off, I graduated from a top film school for undergrad.  Secondly, the films that I have seen that have come out of Chapman are horrible, amateurish, and lack any kind of dimension what-so-ever.  And if you knew anything about me, you would know I am quite the opposite of negative, I'm an extremely positive person.  

zapzorak56 asked a question, and I gave him MY answer.  MY answer was not directed at you, so do yourself a favor and stop trying to put in your two senses where it's not needed.

zapzorak56, to answer your question in detail, if you go to NYU you will have access to a city that will inspire you, meet people from all walks of life, and be able to come up with stories that you wouldn't even think of if you were stuck in the O.C.  

On the other hand, if you prefer warm weather, access to LA whenever you want, then look into Chapman.


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## seventhshade (Apr 27, 2008)

Bandar

I thought when you wrote in one post that you spoke too soon about Chapman and didn't realize that the school was great, that you were being serious. I can now see that it's not the case. Have you ever been to the campus? What films did you see, because I've seen some amazing work there and the facilities are light years beyond what AFI has --I've toured both schools. I have been accepted at both schools and have investigated both thoroughly.  There are pros and cons to both but don't write Chapman off, man. It is a great school.


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## WicketBF2 (Apr 27, 2008)

Having lived in So Cal for 26 years, I have to say that Orange County is an awesome place to be and Chapman is absolutely beautiful, especially since the new facilities opened. But I would tend to agree regarding some of the films. As far as the more recent work that I've seen goes, Mamitas was fantastic and everything else is mediocre to brutal.


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## Winterreverie (Apr 27, 2008)

Did you see The Show Must Go On or Making a Killing? Both of those are brilliant concept pieces-- not at all typical or standard fare for such an industry school. I'm not sure where you can see them other than at Chapman or in festivals. They're recent, so they're not on the dvd. If you get a chance to look at either of those, let me know what you think.


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

Seventhshade,

I have toured Chapman, the school itself is great.  Excellent equipment, great facilities, etc...  and yes, it is LIGHT YEARS away from AFI in terms of resources.

But it is not the equipment, facilities, etc that make a school what it is.  It's the work of the students and the talent that you will find there.  The talent that I saw there was just horrible and lacked any artistic merit what so ever.  Compare that with NYU, Columbia or AFI, where automatically you will notice the talent of the filmmakers.    

The kids that I met and spoke with at Chapman only focused on the commercial side of filmmaking, aka slapstick comedy or melodramatic dramas.  They didn't have unique visions at all, something you will find MUCH MORE of at Columbia, NYU or AFI.  

I'm not asking people to agree with me.  The truth hurts sometimes.  But you wanted my opinion, and I gave you.  Don't hold it against me if you don't agree with it.  There are people out there that will find AFI, NYU or COLUMBIA to be horrible schools. 

If you're happy at Chapman, then by all means, be happy at Chapman!


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## tomsundies (Apr 27, 2008)

The only thing I would add to the discussion is you have to consider the people -- and by that I mean the students, not the faculty -- and the communities they're creating.

Winter, for example, is so enthusiastic about her school that she's willing to frequent these boards (even after she got into Chapman) and answer any and all questions she can re: her program.

Guys like Bandar*, on the other hand, are the reason I completely avoided film production as an undergrad.  And it's something you might consider as you're researching programs.

Which personality is going to thrive in the film industry?  I honestly couldn't tell you (though, I have an idea).  But who would I rather spend two-three years of my life working with?  To me, that's a no-brainer.  

And armen had it absolutely right with: 


> It all depends on what's right for you


 -Adair

*I've never met Bandar Albuliwi, that's just how he comes across (IMHO) on these boards.


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## Cinematical (Apr 27, 2008)

In terms of purely the films school, Chapman is better. It has better equipment, better policies, and almost certainly equal professors. In terms of the actual university, NYU is light years ahead - it has better general academics, and you're in New York vs. the OC (which may or may not be a plus, depending on the individual).

The kind of creativity and excitement that I've seen coming from the school and increasingly talented students at Chapman are notable, as is the established network and reputation of NYU.

As stated, you really should visit both schools for a few days, as, in reality, neither one will give you a greater chance of "making it" - it's completely about which school you prefer.


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

Adair,

Guys like me are the reason you avoided film school?  Hate to break it to you, but you know absolutely nothing about me.  If you did, you would know I go out of my way to help people on a frequent basis.

Again, don't be angry at me because you didn't get into the school of your choice.  Just because Chapman gave you the time of day doesn't make it a better school than the others on this forum.  If you want someone to hold your hand through film school, maybe you should attend Chapman and meet wonderful people like Winter.  I'm sure you'll flourish.  

Someone posted a question on a FORUM, I gave them my PERSONAL OPINION.  What is the problem with that?  Are you guys really that insecure that you can't handle other people's comments?


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## Jayimess (Apr 27, 2008)

Wow, guys, chill out.  There were never such battles last year, so this saddens me.

Bandar, I think you are rather aggressive in your "dissing" of Chapman.  You are entitled to your opinion, but many of your previous posts have implied derision for the school and those who go there, though not as blatantly as your post above.

I believe that this bickering was borne out of an undergrad asking for advice, and you dashed off a quick NYU.  You didn't offer the scathing explanation until confronted.

I could see where someone would be offended, and the original poster wouldn't benefit from such a post...you didn't explain why.  How is that helpful?


For the record, I don't need hand holding, I didn't apply to Chapman, I got into every school I applied to...USC, UCLA, and AFI.  This does not make me ANY BETTER than ANYONE on this site, and if anyone thinks so, they're sorely mistaken.

So I'm not angry at you, Bandar.  I'm not angry at you because you went to a school I turned down, nor do I think I'm better than you because AFI gave me the time of day and I said "no thank you, Danielle, I'm going to USC."

And I know Winter...the girl rocks socks.


To the Z cat, who started this whole thing...

You have to really think about what you want to do, where you want to be, and where you hope to be in the long run.  You couldn't have chosen two more different schools, so once you know what you're looking for, the answer should soon become evident.


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## tomsundies (Apr 27, 2008)

Bandar, I really don't want to argue with you.  Mainly because, as you say, we're talking 'personal opinions.'  And because I really do hate to take this thread off-topic.

In fact, I'm only responding because I (like you I'm sure) don't wish to be mischaracterized: first, I have no doubt that you go out of your way to help people.  I've seen you, on this board, offer people assistance in any number of ways -- including offering up your couch to those looking for housing.

When I say "Guys like Bandar, on the other hand, are the reason I completely avoided  *film production* as an undergrad," I was speaking more to your personality. Winter characterized it pretty well actually, her word I think was 'incendiary.'

Second, I am in no way, shape or form 'angry' at you, and I'm not quite sure what you meant by "because you didn't get into the school of your choice."  Is your argument that because I was rejected by AFI and UCLA and waitlisted by CalArts and USC that I must somehow be enraged that I am not as talented as Bandar Albuliwi and therefore did not get into AFI and NYU? 

You're silly   But your comment only helps to feed my (possibly inaccurate, I admit) perceptions of your personality.

Again, I don't want to argue with you -- but if you want to keep talking about it, maybe we could take it PM?  Or shoot me an e-mail: adair [AT} toms-undies.org?

Best of luck, Bandar.  And I really and truly mean that with all sincerity.
-Adair


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

Nobody was dissing Chapman.  Somebody asked a question and I providing an answer based on my assumptions.

If it came off as me dissing the school than that was your interpretation of my post.  I simply provided my personal opinion. 

I'm done discussing this.


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## BHall - UNC - USC (Apr 27, 2008)

A beautiful building does not a film school make, nor does its inventory of Panasonic HD Cameras.

Anyone who would really consider Chapman over NYU, has no concept of the intellectual necessity within quality filmmaking. I am sure Chapman is fine, but the caliber of your fellow students alone would be like night and day. If being near a nice beach is important, then Chapman, but no other aspect is even close.

I have a hard enough time having a serious conversation in Hollywood, much less Orange County. I am only reminded of the painful lesson of several seasons of "The Hills" etc. to realize one must avoid at all cost, Orange County. 

Superficial is all I can say. Before you make up your mind, have a conversation about politics and/or literature with 4 seniors at each university. Nuff said.

You don't want to hear what I really think!


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

BHall,

I couldn't have said it any better.


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

Adair,

No matter which film school you attend, you are most certainly going to find people with mixed personalities.  

Again, you don't know me as a person, so don't judge my personality based on what you read on these forums.  I would have no problem taking anybody out for coffee who goes to Chapman, given that they can have an intellectual conversation about real Cinema.  Not Slapstick comedy and the typical Hollywood bull**** that comes with it.  

Again, if you are looking to mingle with people with the same personality traits as yourself, you may very well find Chapman to be your type of school.  

And to answer your question, I would love to continue this conversation in private via e-mail, rather than flood the boards with senseless arguments.

Best,

Bandar
bandaralbuliwi@hotmail.com


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## Maseiya (Apr 27, 2008)

I second that everyone should chill out.

Bandar has become a very good friend of mine. I think I know him pretty well, better than a lot of you here. And he is the best kind of friend you can ask for--protective, and proud of you and your accomplishments. And he IS the incendiary type--because, yes, he's really protective of everything he loves, which includes AFI. (I love AFI too, btw. Does this make me a bad person? I hope not. I can see people are starting to imply that here.) I don't think being protective is a bad thing.

I understand what people mean when they say "incendiary" here, but I must point out that anyone who is rising to defend Chapman by trying to stomp on Bandar is just as incendiary as he is. Again, not a bad thing (to be protective I mean). A lot of people have this instinct to protect; protecting always comes with some snarling.

There have been some misunderstandings here... but we're beyond misunderstandings now. I don't see any other way for this to be resolved except for both Bandar and Winter to just drop it and... maybe ignore each other. I have to point out Winter's superstar status on studentfilms, and although it's well-deserved, I have to say that anyone who goes up against her will most likely be knocked down by anyone who frequents this forum.  I wouldn't, I couldn't, in all honesty say that it'd ever be a fair fight. Same thing would be true if anyone ever insulted Jayimess.

This is not the place to compete. The place to compete is in our films, and our weapons should be our talent and hard work. Oh--and our honesty in conveying what we believe in. Yeah?

I think it would be a shame if people started seriously hating on each other here.

Hate works all kinds of ways.

Let's just stop it now?

Thanks--

Steph


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## Jayimess (Apr 27, 2008)

Insult away, folks.  I'll be able to sleep at night.

To me, this site is about helping each other.  A high school senior asked for advice regarding film schools, and BA's reply of "NYU" and nothing more was regarded as anti-Chapman.   Who knows if it was.  It still wasn't helpful!   

As someone who also made some films during her undergrad,  at a school which nobody would consider in the same breath as NYU or Chapman, I can tell you, * it's not the name of your school that gets you everywhere...it's what you put into it. *

Steph, I definitely am not anti-AFI or pro-Chapman.  The only school I can endorse is my own, and even had the question been NYU or Chapman versus USC, I wouldn't have simply offered a three letter answer.  

I have gleefully shepherded one of my closest friends (from that same non-name institution I got my BA from) through the application process at both schools this year, and she was accepted into both.  She'll be attending AFI.

*I couldn't be happier for her.* 


I'm here because this forum saved my life last year, and I think the process shouldn't be so hard, so I want to help others.  I also think it's a great way to build a film student network .  I know everyone at USC from this forum last year, some of my closest friends in film school, actually.  Winter and Philly saved my ass when I took my aforementioned friend on a tour of Chapman.  I have friends at NYU, UCLA, UMiami, and Columbia because of this forum.  I even hung out with prospective applicant Ryan C. at First Look.

(Remember, Bandar, it was the same day you asked if there were extra tickets to the Raiders of the Last Ark screening, and I told you I had two for you, via three media, actually, and you never replied.  EVER...which I found odd, but whatever.)

I think this is fascinating, the way people are changing within WEEKS of gaining acceptance, acting like...I dunno, something they think they wish they were.

We should be using this site to network, people.  

If you plan on continuing to advise people on this forum, realize that a one word answer, with no explanation or justification is not only unhelpful to those asking for that advice, it can be viewed as insulting.  Just because Bandar would choose NYU over Chapman doesn't mean that Zap should.  Just knowing his choice does not help him.   *Each school is different for each student.* 

Deep breaths, everyone.


*Now, Zapzorak, you poor thing, what are you going to do about your film school quandary?  

Best of luck with such a difficult decision, though I'm sure you'll make the best of wherever you go.

This thread was originally about you, and it must return to be, and remain to be, about you.*

PS....Please don't think the angry ones are crazy...well, go ahead, but in that good artisty kind of way.  ;-)


Edited for html issues.


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## BillyD (Apr 27, 2008)

Well, as an old poster and current lurker, I can say, from an outside and totally objective perspective, that certain people have indeed come across as "incendiary" in recent discussions. When someone publicly posts their scholarship offer, for example, I think that's in incredibly poor taste.  Just my two cents, though.  It's extremely hard to get a feel for someone via online discussion, but despite that, judgments about character will, for better or worse, still be made.  My opinion is that you disregard the power of the internet and your online reputation at your own risk.


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## Maseiya (Apr 27, 2008)

Jayimess--I never said you were anti-AFI or pro-Chapman. I know you have friends in like, every school. I've read a lot of your posts. 

To paraphrase something Anthony de Mello once said, Let's seek the truth and start by dropping our opinions.

I'm curious about one thing though--and don't get me wrong, I'm _not_ trying to insult. Flamewars are pretty pointless, so I don't understand why you're encouraging them. Insults and petty online squabbles aren't helping anyone, at least in my humble opinion. <--unless you were just being sarcastic.


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

There really isn't a point to continue this discussion because it is seriously getting out of hand and swaying way off topic here.

I'm not as evil as people are making me out to be, and things that I have posted on these forums may have come off as a bit incendiary but I meant well.


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## Cinematical (Apr 27, 2008)

I think many of the misconceptions surrounding Chapman stem from the division between the university and the Dodge College. Chapman the university isn't elite, and certainly isn't anywhere near the caliber of an NYU or a USC. If you "talked politics" with general students from Chapman, yes, you might come away slightly disenchanted (I don't mean to offend any general Chapman-ights here, as I'm sure there are stellar students in the school). But if you look at the FILM SCHOOL; well, then you're talkin' a whole other ball-game. Currently, the Dodge College puts SC (the former champ) to shame in the equipment department; they also have some of the best professors in the country (they went out and basically bought all the best ones for their college). A friend of mine who goes to Chapman put it best - the two schools (Chapman and Dodge) are fundamentally different.

Chapman is an elite film school - there simply is no denying it. Heck, they're threatening enough to USC's position that George Lucas dumped $175 million on the School of Cinematic Arts to ensure that his school wasn't being shown-up.

But, as most people have said, it's not the school that will make you. It's how comfortable you feel in the school. Remember, film school is only one way to develop your cinematic talents - there's a very good argument for developing outside of film school, if that fits someone better. No film school will give you a pass to the industry; heck, it probably wont do much to actually get you in. What it WILL do is provide a supportive, enclosed learning environment to develop in.

So go into the decision with this in mind: how "good" the film school is is ultimatley irrelevant when considering the schools of Chapman's and NYU's caliber - what matters is, will you be able to grow there?


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

Great post Cinematical!


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

> Originally posted by BillyD:
> It's extremely hard to get a feel for someone via online discussion, but despite that, judgments about character will, for better or worse, still be made.



I agree BillyD.  I think lots of judgments have been made about certain people on these forums (myself included) based on personal tastes, likes vs. dislikes, etc...


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

BillyD,

By the way, I remember your posts from last year when you were applying (I didn't have an account back then).

Did you get into the school of your choice?  If I remember correctly, you were applying to Columbia, NYU and UCLA?


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## CelestiallyEccentric (Apr 27, 2008)

> Originally posted by Cinematical:
> 
> But, as most people have said, it's not the school that will make you. It's how comfortable you feel in the school. Remember, film school is only one way to develop your cinematic talents - there's a very good argument for developing outside of film school, if that fits someone better. No film school will give you a pass to the industry; heck, it probably wont do much to actually get you in. What it WILL do is provide a supportive, enclosed learning environment to develop in.
> 
> So go into the decision with this in mind: how "good" the film school is is ultimatley irrelevant when considering the schools of Chapman's and NYU's caliber - what matters is, will you be able to grow there?



How _good_ a film school seems in anyones opinion is totally irrelevant to someone else. 
It's all based on how the individual school feels about attending and what they feel they will get out of it. Your opinion and other peoples opinions don't matter when it comes to a persons personal decision. Status, to me, doesn't matter. The latest state of the art technology, I could care less about. It's all based on how comfortable I feel about the school. Do I feel, as an individual that Chapman would be right for me? Yes, I do. But that doesn't mean I'm going to debate what is a better school. Something what seems better, to me, might not seem better to you.


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## Cinematical (Apr 27, 2008)

Isn't that what I said....?


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## Winterreverie (Apr 27, 2008)

zapzorak56- What is they style of writing you are interested in? or rather the style of film? If you have a stronger art-house, indie flair, from what I know NYU might fit the bill.  If you tend to write more main stream- Chapman might be a better fit. But really, style is NOT the part of a school set in stone. In my feature screenwriting class  there are indie comedy writers (a la Little Miss Sunshine), Fantasy writers, Darker racier Dramedy  (a la Hedwig and the Angry Inch), a few coming of age stories, a couple true life adaptations, A nineteenth century drama, and I think maybe one "typical Hollywood comedy" but as you can see, each student will bring their own style regardless of the "style" the school is known for. 
IMDB faculty and recurring professors. One of my personal favorites at Chapman is Tom Mankiewicz who loves to schmooze over lunch with us and often brings his friends (Like Richard Donner)to meet with us and discuss his process as well as offer students opportunity to work with him.

If you go back to the first post I left you and answered those questions and are still up in the air on your choice try visiting both schools. The impressions They'll make will go a long way in helping you decide where you'll be happiest. Meet the students, see the surrounding area, and you'll just know if you fit.

Film school is what you make of it. So long as the program has equipment, insight, and opportunity it really doesn't matter where you get your degree from. But it should be a place you feel nurtures your creative voice.

PM me your email and I will forward it along to some undergrads I've worked with on set and they can give you more insight. Many on the forums are graduates and our concerns tend to be different than an undergrad's.    


And as a side note-- I have no ill feelings towards any film school and have friends at just about all of them, including AFI. I don't think anyone needed to defend AFI as no one was talking down on it. I (as well as Bruno from an earlier thread) only felt the need to defend our school from people who are not part of the program and believe it is their right to offer negative insight. I would never presume to know more about a program I didn't have personal experience in-- especially over those who do.

Thanks to all who defended me and my frustration as I'm sure any of you in the same situation would defend your own schools. I suppose I was taken aback, because in the past these threads were more about support and establishing relationships with other up-coming students regardless of school rather than competition on who's school is better.


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

Jayimess,

I must have missed your post back then about the film screening at First Look, sorry!

Can't we all just get along?


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 27, 2008)

And Winter,

I was not talking down about your school.  I was offering my personal opinion, which happened to come across as talking down about your school.  

I'll be the first to appologize if I offended you or your school in any way.  And I would actually love to meet up for coffee or a drink if you would like, so we can talk like civilized human beings! 

No hard feelings?


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## Cinematical (Apr 27, 2008)

Civility reigns! Hip hip, Hooray!

And now I should actually get back to work...


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## CelestiallyEccentric (Apr 27, 2008)

> Originally posted by Cinematical:
> Isn't that what I said....?



Yes. Pretty much.  It's all this talk of equipment and status that I was trying to get at.


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## BillyD (Apr 28, 2008)

> Originally posted by Bandar Albuliwi:
> BillyD,
> 
> By the way, I remember your posts from last year when you were applying (I didn't have an account back then).
> ...



Yep, I did.  Thanks for asking.  I'm really loving Columbia.  Can't believe the first year is almost over, though...


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## birdman78 (Apr 28, 2008)

I kind of doubt the original poster is still looking at this thread. I'm glad civility is back at reign, though I have to admit one can learn a thing or two from angry fire clashing posts. 

Now, what's weird is that everyone writing on this thread is grad students or grad prospects, and it seems like they're referring to the grad programs of this school. 

One thing to consider for undergrad, and I might be wring - but I think I heard that somewhere - is that in NYU the first two years you don't really get into actual film making and it's more of a general studies kinda thing.
I don' know how Chapman's undergrad is - but that might factor in heavily (either way... there is a lot to be said about a strong liberal arts foundation by the way). 

look into it.


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## MichaelJM (Apr 28, 2008)

birdman78- Film classes start as a freshman.  No idea about NYU.
---
I just wanted to reply about what was said about the quality of Chapman films.  I don't want to offend anyone by this, and I certainly don't want to start an argument.  I just wanted to give you my perspective on what I consider to be an important issue.

I try and go to the film screenings at Chapman whenever they hold them.  To be honest, I am mostly disappointed by what I see.  But let me take a step back.  The production value on all of them is great.  However, what I find lacking in most of the films, is the quality of the story.  There are films that come out of Chapman that are great, and they have a great screenplay etc.  (like "The Show Must Go On" as Winterreverie mentioned)  Each week though, I am always disappointed.  Keep in mind I'm probably too harsh a critic, but all of my friends agree with me.

Before everyone starts to run away from Chapman, let me say this.  I think that there will be better and better films coming out of Chapman.  But aside from that speculation, I find that it is up to the individual student how good the film ends up being.  You could say that my comments prove Chapman doesn't prepare students, but I would disagree.  Just like it's up to you which school you prefer, it's up to the student how to approach filmmaking.  Don't look at the films at Chapman or any school and say, "If I go there, I will make films like that".  Say instead, "If I go there, I will make better films than that".  It's not arrogance; it's a goal.  Don't judge a film school by what you see others getting out of it.  Judge it by what you think you can get out of it.


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