# Paying for AFI? (And film school in general)



## katiebonnie (Feb 22, 2021)

The fees are so expensive I don't think I'd have a hope in hell of going even if I somehow got in  🙃  😂


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## Abbey Normal (Feb 22, 2021)

katiebonnie said:


> It said March 15th on the email so I reckon we've got time. The fees are so expensive I don't think I'd have a hope in hell of going even if I somehow got in  🙃  😂


Yeah, all these top film programs are crazy expensive!!! The idea of being saddled with crippling debt is scary. Honestly, I don't even want to think about it haha. The cost of living plus tuition is enough to put a down payment on a house or buy 5 Teslas lol.


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## katiebonnie (Feb 22, 2021)

Abbey Normal said:


> Yeah, all these top film programs are crazy expensive!!! The idea of being saddled with crippling debt is scary. Honestly, I don't even want to think about it haha. The cost of living plus tuition is enough to put a down payment on a house or buy 5 Teslas lol.


Right!! It's really hard as an international too because I'm so limited on the loans I can get that I'd basically be screwed the second I graduate. Thankfully this is currently not something I have to worry about 😂, I think the competition has only increased this year so I'm not feeling that confident 🤷‍♀️


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## runningupthathill (Feb 22, 2021)

Abbey Normal said:


> Yeah, all these top film programs are crazy expensive!!! The idea of being saddled with crippling debt is scary. Honestly, I don't even want to think about it haha. The cost of living plus tuition is enough to put a down payment on a house or buy 5 Teslas lol.


Right? I'm really curious as to how people pay for their living expenses, especially because the school doesn't allow you to hold employment while you're in the program (which is kinda unethical, in my opinion). Like how do people not starve?


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## katiebonnie (Feb 22, 2021)

runningupthathill said:


> Right? I'm really curious as to how people pay for their living expenses, especially because the school doesn't allow you to have a job while you're in the program (which is kinda unethical, in my opinion). Like how do people not starve?


I really don't see how I could do it without a job, I've been a freelancer for years and (if I got in) I would want to continue working...😬


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## runningupthathill (Feb 22, 2021)

katiebonnie said:


> I really don't see how I could do it without a job, I've been a freelancer for years and (if I got in) I would want to continue working...😬


Same, I've had a full time job for years. I have a lot of editing experience so my plan is to maybe pick up commercial gigs on the low that but options are limited.


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## its_me_mari (Feb 22, 2021)

katiebonnie said:


> I really don't see how I could do it without a job, I've been a freelancer for years and (if I got in) I would want to continue working...😬


Same here!
I work in a company in the marketing and art department and I was fortunate enough to have an amazing boss who already told me that he wants me to keep working remotely even in the US. The only problem is the currency, but I'm happy to still keep the job!


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## wuzpoppin (Feb 22, 2021)

there's this really great comment from a previous columbia thread about paying for tuition and expenses that i think is very helpful:






						Columbia University - MFA - Fall 2018
					

Received an application decision email at 10:22am PST this morning. I'm on the (apparently unranked?) waitlist.



					www.filmschool.org
				




unfortunately a big part (grad PLUS loans) is geared toward US citizens, so i'm sorry about that, international friends!

if i understand correctly, US grad students are basically guaranteed federal loans in the form of grad PLUS loans, up to the max cost of attendance for our program. also federal loans are really good in terms of interest rate and forgiveness vs. private loans, which i would not recommend at all.


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## Chris W (Feb 22, 2021)

Patrick Clement said:


> Columbia is one of the most expensive MFAs in the US. It costs a lot of $$$$. Including housing, meals, travel, etc you are looking at $200K-$450k depending on the length of your degree (2.5 to 5yrs).


That topline figure is crazy.


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## wuzpoppin (Feb 22, 2021)

Chris W said:


> That topline figure is crazy.


for real!! i used to live in new york on a decent salary and i can't imagine doing that all on borrowed money, plus having to do grad school full time


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## Abbey Normal (Feb 22, 2021)

runningupthathill said:


> Right? I'm really curious as to how people pay for their living expenses, especially because the school doesn't allow you to hold employment while you're in the program (which is kinda unethical, in my opinion). Like how do people not starve?


I know the friends that graduated from AFI came from wealthy backgrounds so money was never an issue. But everyone else I know took out massive loans and are still paying for it. This includes friends that received partial scholarships. And because AFI is so intense I think it's impossible to have a side job the first year, especially during cycle films. I hear you're either on campus, in the library, or writing/collaborating 24/7. So having a part-time job will be difficult to squeeze into your busy schedule.


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## Chris W (Feb 22, 2021)

Take some of the loan and invest in bitcoin 10 years ago to pay it off after you invent time machine.

*not financial advice but good plot for movie. I take 5% royalty fees.


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## Chris W (Feb 22, 2021)

Abbey Normal said:


> I know the friends that graduated from AFI came from wealthy backgrounds so money was never an issue. But everyone else I know took out massive loans and are still paying for it. This includes friends that received partial scholarships. And because AFI is so intense I think it's impossible to have a side job the first year, especially during cycle films. I hear you're either on campus, in the library, or writing/collaborating 24/7. So having a part-time job will be difficult to squeeze into your busy schedule.


What's the estimated total for AFI? $100k? I have it up to $50k a year on our listings but that could be old info. (and would love to update it if it was)






						Film School Reviews & Acceptance Statistics
					

Reviews and acceptance rates for top Film Schools by film students at USC, Chapman, AFI, NYU, Columbia, and more.... Acceptance rates and minimum GPAs for the best film schools are calculated from the applications in our film school application database.



					www.filmschool.org


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## Abbey Normal (Feb 22, 2021)

Chris W said:


> What's the estimated total for AFI? $100k? I have it up to $50k a year on our listings but that could be old info. (and would love to update it if it was)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Per AFI's site:


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## runningupthathill (Feb 22, 2021)

Abbey Normal said:


> I know the friends that graduated from AFI came from wealthy backgrounds so money was never an issue. But everyone else I know took out massive loans and are still paying for it. This includes friends that received partial scholarships. And because AFI is so intense I think it's impossible to have a side job the first year, especially during cycle films. I hear you're either on campus, in the library, or writing/collaborating 24/7. So having a part-time job will be difficult to squeeze into your busy schedule.


Welp, sounds nice. Haha. Yeah, I can imagine it's really difficult to manage with the workload. Almost impossible


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## Chris W (Feb 22, 2021)

Looks like I need to update those listings!


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## katiebonnie (Feb 22, 2021)

wuzpoppin said:


> there's this really great comment from a previous columbia thread about paying for tuition and expenses that i think is very helpful:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well... that's a depressing read  😂 I did get the vibe that Columbia was out of my league and clearly it is as there's no way I would be able to just continuously borrow funds, bit of a shame to read that they are not a low income friendly school.

Buttt yes an incredibly helpful resource! Thank you for sharing! It's so weird to me because it seems so easy for my American friends to come to the UK to live or study and yet my parents would have to remortgage their house twice and I'd probs have to sell a kidney to study in the US 😂


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## Abbey Normal (Mar 18, 2021)

Bumping this!

I'm sure I'm not the only wondering how in the hell am I supposed to pay for grad school. So, I'm curious what plan of action people are taking. Yes, each program gives out a limited number of scholarships. Yes, some people have super wealthy parents. Yes, some people have savings, etc. Yes, a majority of folks are going to take out loans. But has anyone applied for like a shit ton of scholarships to pay for grad school? I know there's "FREE" money out there.

Please chime in. I'd love to hear your thoughts/advice. 😀


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## bean (Mar 19, 2021)

I didn't get any scholarship funding from AFI. I have a few years of savings from work, but still will need to take out a lot in loans. I'd have nothing left but debt at the end of year two which is scary as I want to be able to support myself staying in LA. I have no idea where to find film school friendly scholarships. A lot seem to be reserved for undergrads, different career paths, specific diversity groups, etc. Any tips would be appreciated!


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## tls (Mar 19, 2021)

I know the ole take-out-loans-for-film-school vs don't is a common conundrum. I'd love to get in touch with a few recent grads who took out loans and a few who are a few years out, and interview them. @Chris W happy to help work on this if you can help find the contacts!


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## katiebonnie (Feb 22, 2021)

The fees are so expensive I don't think I'd have a hope in hell of going even if I somehow got in  🙃  😂


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## katiebonnie (Mar 19, 2021)

bean said:


> I didn't get any scholarship funding from AFI. I have a few years of savings from work, but still will need to take out a lot in loans. I'd have nothing left but debt at the end of year two which is scary as I want to be able to support myself staying in LA. I have no idea where to find film school friendly scholarships. A lot seem to be reserved for undergrads, different career paths, specific diversity groups, etc. Any tips would be appreciated!


I'm a bit at a loss tbh! I have savings from work but I was a freelance performer so.... I got rona'd last year bigtime and my savings are probably worth about 10% of what I need haha.

In terms of the scholarships for afi, I got in touch with Robin Bailey-Chen and she sent me a pdf list of scholarships for international students so if you're domestic I'm sure they will have something similar? If you're international I would be happy to send it on to you.


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## Chris W (Mar 19, 2021)

tls said:


> I know the ole take-out-loans-for-film-school vs don't is a common conundrum. I'd love to get in touch with a few recent grads who took out loans and a few who are a few years out, and interview them. @Chris W happy to help work on this if you can help find the contacts!


You could reach out to people in threads and applications from 2018 and earlier to find them probably?

It definitely would be interesting to hear what they say about debt.


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## tls (Mar 19, 2021)

Chris W said:


> You could reach out to people in threads and applications from 2018 and earlier to find them probably?
> 
> It definitely would be interesting to hear what they say about debt.


Good thought!


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## queeryet_good (Mar 19, 2021)

What are people's thoughts on asking for a little more $$$? I got a small scholarship from AFI, which is AWESOME! But it's not the number I'd like it to be, I'm thinking about writing a very respectful, but still direct, letter to them advocating for a higher number. I've heard success stories of this in the past, but I don't want to put them off...


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## katiebonnie (Mar 19, 2021)

queeryet_good said:


> What are people's thoughts on asking for a little more $$$? I got a small scholarship from AFI, which is AWESOME! But it's not the number I'd like it to be, I'm thinking about writing a very respectful, but still direct, letter to them advocating for a higher number. I've heard success stories of this in the past, but I don't want to put them off...


I asked if I could write a letter appealing the decision (I was offered nothing and I won't lie, I earned less than $15k last year thanks to covid so was getting desperate haha!) and Robin Bailey-Chen straight up said no.

However, if you have already been offered some scholarship, it might be different and you might have some bargaining room? Asking can't hurt  🤷‍♀️


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## Abbey Normal (Mar 19, 2021)

queeryet_good said:


> What are people's thoughts on asking for a little more $$$? I got a small scholarship from AFI, which is AWESOME! But it's not the number I'd like it to be, I'm thinking about writing a very respectful, but still direct, letter to them advocating for a higher number. I've heard success stories of this in the past, but I don't want to put them off...


Hey! Congrats on receiving ascholarship! Looks like you're in the directing track! As for the screenwriting folks, some of us recevied a big fat $0.00!!! If you do send them an email, can you also mention that screewriters are the MOST important aspect of filmmaking (FACT haha), and therefore we DESERVE more $$$?

Thanks : )


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## Abbey Normal (Mar 19, 2021)

On a serious note, what are your thoughts on creating a GoFundMe campaign to help support grad school? I've been doing a little research and see that it's an option for grad students to help fund their education. I've never really asked for money before so this is all new to me.

Pros: money is money, so it does't hurt to try

Cons: GoFundMe has a processing fee of 1.9% + $0.30 per donation


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## KDonthescene (Mar 19, 2021)

Abbey Normal said:


> On a serious note, what are your thoughts on creating a GoFundMe campaign to help support grad school? I've been doing a little research and see that it's an option for grad students to help fund their education. I've never really asked for money before so this is all new to me.
> 
> Pros: money is money, so it does't hurt to try
> 
> Cons: GoFundMe has a processing fee of 1.9% + $0.30 per donation


Do what you have to do if you think your friends and family will support you!


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## MilesofTrials (Mar 19, 2021)

Abbey Normal said:


> On a serious note, what are your thoughts on creating a GoFundMe campaign to help support grad school? I've been doing a little research and see that it's an option for grad students to help fund their education. I've never really asked for money before so this is all new to me.
> 
> Pros: money is money, so it does't hurt to try
> 
> Cons: GoFundMe has a processing fee of 1.9% + $0.30 per donation



If you're a U.S. citizen, you will need to be cognizant of certain tax implications associated with crowdfunding. As long as you're not performing a service (or providing a good), the income is non-taxable (yay!). However, if you exceed $20,000 in donations, you hit the threshold for filling out a 1099K form with the IRS. You can choose to not file (which I do not advocate for), or you can file with offsetting incomes so that your taxable amount = 0. This is not financial advice.


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## bean (Mar 20, 2021)

katiebonnie said:


> I'm a bit at a loss tbh! I have savings from work but I was a freelance performer so.... I got rona'd last year bigtime and my savings are probably worth about 10% of what I need haha.
> 
> In terms of the scholarships for afi, I got in touch with Robin Bailey-Chen and she sent me a pdf list of scholarships for international students so if you're domestic I'm sure they will have something similar? If you're international I would be happy to send it on to you.


I'm domestic. The suggestions from AFI's website haven't been applicable so far but I'll keep looking. Thx!


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## runningupthathill (Mar 20, 2021)

Okay maybe this sounds crazy but is anyone else considering withdrawing their 401(k) funds for grad school? I believe there's no penalty right now because of COVID.


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## KDonthescene (Mar 20, 2021)

runningupthathill said:


> Okay maybe this sounds crazy but is anyone else considering withdrawing their 401(k) funds for grad school? I believe there's no penalty right now because of COVID.


I’m not. For me, I am considering it emergency money for potential use after graduation only.


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## MilesofTrials (Mar 20, 2021)

runningupthathill said:


> Okay maybe this sounds crazy but is anyone else considering withdrawing their 401(k) funds for grad school? I believe there's no penalty right now because of COVID.


The applicability of the penalty-free 401k withdrawal under the CARES Act (the first US Covid relief bill) is: up to 100k can be withdrawn for those individuals “affected by Covid.”

This includes those who’ve fallen ill/spouses of those who’ve have fallen ill, those furloughed or laid off, work hours cut. You have to go through an affirmative qualification process with whoever runs your 401k.


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## runningupthathill (Mar 20, 2021)

MilesofTrials said:


> The applicability of the penalty-free 401k withdrawal under the CARES Act (the first US Covid relief bill) is: up to 100k can be withdrawn for those individuals “affected by Covid.”
> 
> This includes those who’ve fallen ill/spouses of those who’ve have fallen ill, those furloughed or laid off, work hours cut. You have to go through an affirmative qualification process with whoever runs your 401k.


I've also read that 401(k) funds can be withdrawn for educational costs with little to no penalty so I'm going to explore that route too but I wonder how realistic that is? Haven't been able to find much info on it.


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## MilesofTrials (Mar 20, 2021)

runningupthathill said:


> I've also read that 401(k) funds can be withdrawn for educational costs with little to no penalty so I'm going to explore that route too but I wonder how realistic that is? Haven't been able to find much info on it.


Look into whether you qualify for a hardship withdrawal for your tuition. You can also borrow from your 401k account (essentially your future self is loaning your current self money).


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## runningupthathill (Mar 20, 2021)

MilesofTrials said:


> Look into whether you qualify for a hardship withdrawal for your tuition. You can also borrow from your 401k account (essentially your future self is loaning your current self money).


Oh I didn't know that, thank you!


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## Abbey Normal (Mar 20, 2021)

bean said:


> I'm domestic. The suggestions from AFI's website haven't been applicable so far but I'll keep looking. Thx!


Domestic, too. I qualify for 2 of the Non-AFI scholarships, but surely there has to be more. And these aren't guaranteed. So I have to take that into consideration.

I also love how they listed the Nicholl Fellowship, which is insanely hard to get. Like crazy insane!!! On average they receive about 7,500+ submissions and only reward 5 writers haha. The odds aren't great. But I have faith in us Screenwriting Fellows! 😁


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## Chris W (Mar 20, 2021)

Abbey Normal said:


> I also love how they listed the Nicholl Fellowship, which is insanely hard to get. Like crazy insane!!! On average they receive about 7,500+ submissions and only reward 5 writers haha. The odds aren't great.


Go big or go home!! But...


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## bean (Mar 20, 2021)

Abbey Normal said:


> Domestic, too. I qualify for 2 of the Non-AFI scholarships, but surely there has to be more. And these aren't guaranteed. So I have to take that into consideration.
> 
> I also love how they listed the Nicholl Fellowship, which is insanely hard to get. Like crazy insane!!! On average they receive about 7,500+ submissions and only reward 5 writers haha. The odds aren't great. But I have faith in us Screenwriting Fellows! 😁


There's not much for Producing fellows sadly. I was told in one of my interviews (not AFI, thankfully) to "be a good producer" and find the money like they assume there's big money just sitting around. Even if you win a private scholarship or two they're usually small. Felt out of touch.


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## Zijman (Mar 25, 2021)

runningupthathill said:


> Oh I didn't know that


Hello, editing fellow here.  Just wanted to chime in.  I'm not a financial advisor but I am speaking from experience.  You'll need to be working for your employer that is providing the 401K to get a loan. While working you can pay back the loan in 5 years.  Once you stop working you'll have to pay back the loan usually within the year and if you end up defaulting they basically just take it out of your 401K as if you took it out with the 10% penalty and taxes.  The CARES act does have something on loans which allows you to pay the taxes over a 3 year period but again you have to be working.

I would go on reddit and read up on people asking the question about 401Ks and college tuition.  I've learned a lot from there.  There is a way to avoid 10% by doing a direct rollover to a traditional IRA for educational expenses.  However, I've decided like another member to see it as an emergency fund and not touch it.


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## katiebonnie (Feb 22, 2021)

The fees are so expensive I don't think I'd have a hope in hell of going even if I somehow got in  🙃  😂


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## llueve (Apr 9, 2021)

I spoke with AFI's Financial Aid Office recently to get some questions answered and found something out that I wish I had known before applying:

*Financial aid offers from AFI cap at $10,000.*

- This number is for incoming Fall 2021 Fellows. This maximum varies year to year depending on AFI's fund-raising efforts, but has hovered around this amount for the past few years (and perhaps beyond).
- This cap does NOT reflect the THREE full-tuition scholarships that are awarded by AFI every year. One is for a Screenwriting Fellow. I am not sure what disciplines the other two are for. The recipient is determined by the department.

So, either you apply to a lucky discipline and win the jackpot and get full tuition paid for by the school, OR you will *at best* have only $10k covered per year, which is less than 1/6 of the total tuition and fees (and about 1/9 of tuition + fees + living expenses).



queeryet_good said:


> I'm thinking about writing a very respectful, but still direct, letter to them advocating for a higher number.



I'm curious, did you end up sending an appeal and if so, were you successful?


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## Abbey Normal (Apr 9, 2021)

llueve said:


> I spoke with AFI's Financial Aid Office recently to get some questions answered and found something out that I wish I had known before applying:
> 
> *Financial aid offers from AFI cap at $10,000.*
> 
> - This number is for incoming Fall 2021 Fellows. This maximum varies year to year depending on AFI's fund-raising efforts, but has hovered around this amount for the past few years (and perhaps beyond).


I'll take $10k/year!!! Looks like Chapman also capped off scholarships at $10k. Right now any money is better than no money haha.


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