# Where did all the love go?



## Winterreverie (May 19, 2008)

When I first found these forums there were so many nice helpful people willing to share the process of applying with each other. It was a great environment and I became close to many of the people I've met here.

Lately these forums have been filled with disrespectful, pretentious, instigators who must get off by putting other people and programs down. 

I stayed around to help people out on this journey because so many on this site did the same for me when I was applying. But now, more often than not, I find people disrespecting each other here and I get angry.

Really? We're not in competition. Film making is a collaborative art, these are your future peers, and you're burning bridges.

I'm starting to stay away from these forums more often because of this. That makes me so sad! I wonder how many people here from my generation are feeling the same way...I guess mainly this is to jayimess then, since most of our contemporaries have already been "scared away"

Just thought I'd put this out there so people can take a good look at the way they behave themselves. I'd hate to see a good community fall apart because of pettiness.


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## CelestiallyEccentric (May 19, 2008)

> Really? We're not in competition. Film making is a collaborative art, these are your future peers, and you're burning bridges.



No kidding...And I'm with you on this. 

You wanna know what I think it is? Ego. Plain and simple. I think part of the reason people are acting so disrespectful is because there is a myth that it's "hard" to get into the industry. This is not true. Anyone who sets their mind to accomplishing their goals will get to where they are because they deserve it for their hard work. 



> Lately these forums have been filled with disrespectful, pretentious, instigators who must get off by putting other people and programs down.



I know, right. I've noticed that people sometimes pop into posts, trying to make what their saying seem innocent, but it's really geared towards putting down a certain school.


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## Bware (May 19, 2008)

Funny, I was just about to post something similar, regarding a post I read in a different topic.  It's actually kind of sad in a pathetic way that people feel the need to put down other programs in order to bolster their own egos.

I won't name names, but some of the more arrogant "contributors" here are either exercising grudges towards programs they did not get into, or are trying to cover their own insecurities by re-affirming that they made the correct choice with their schools.

... or they're just d-bags.

Unfortunately for them, they fail to realize that in an industry such as ours, attending film school (let alone whatever you may think is a "top" film school) is not really _necessary_ to succeed, so attending one school over another isn't really going to make anyone more likely to score a production deal.  Despite what some may think, it isn't the school or program that makes the filmmaker.  Hollywood is filled with graduates of AFI and USC looking for jobs, so if you think that just because you are attending those places (or UCLA, or NYU, or Columbia, or Chapman, or FSU, etc...) that you are somehow "set," you are sorely mistaken.

A pompous, pretentious, disrespectful, instigative attitude like that will only serve as your own roadblock when no one wants to work with you.  Although maybe you can be the next David O. Russell!


Remember kids, Uwe Boll thinks he's hot stuff too.


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## redpokiepenguin (May 19, 2008)

First off I'd like to apologize if anything I said did come off as pretentious or otherwise. I'll admit I was really harsh on Columbia, but part of it is because I refuse to help that school in anyway. Regardless of my bad experience in undergrad, I shouldn't have knocked it so hard.

In other cases if I seemed too harsh on a school I may have been too candid with my own decision making process. I dunno I never meant to offend if I did, and I'm really worried that I did. I really just wanted to be helpful because the forum to me is like this really cool exclusive club that I'm in on.


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## Jayimess (May 20, 2008)

There are certain people who actively seek out any threads about a certain school, though they did not apply there and do not go there, and then post snotty, snobbish, middle school comments.  

I'm not sure why.  Personally, when I read threads about schools I'm unfamiliar with or don't care for due to my research, I am either silent, as in the former, or respectfully honest, with the latter.  I believe it's important to be honest and share knowledge, but the posts I'm speaking of do nothing of the kind.

To do anything else is, as fellow SF member Icarus recently put it, to behave like an asshat.  Film schools vary greatly, and a program that might not intrigue me, or even appears unattractive, may be the best fit for someone else. 

Trash talking is worthless.  It's not helping the prospective applicants, and it's so disrespectful to Chris and the community he's built for us to populate.  This was once a viable resource when doing film school research, and a community as well.  It's on the verge of sinking into a pissing contest.

Here's what I wrote about it earlier this week, though, Winter.  It was within a thread about the "top five schools," which was escalating to pettiness.




> Just as law schools have Harvard and business schools have Wharton, and med schools have Johns Hopkins (or whatever), football players dream of Ohio State and basketball players dream of Duke, there will always be the known schools, the brands.
> 
> But does it matter if you're not making the most of it?
> 
> ...




I guess that's my swan song.


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## Chris W (May 20, 2008)

> Originally posted by CelestiallyEccentric:
> 
> You wanna know what I think it is? Ego. Plain and simple. I think part of the reason people are acting so disrespectful is because there is a myth that it's "hard" to get into the industry. This is not true. Anyone who sets their mind to accomplishing their goals will get to where they are because they deserve it for their hard work.



This is completely true. Anyone cane make it if they are determined.

I just reached a huge milestone for myself, a film school graduate of Boston University's College of Communication (1999) and have just started editing my third feature film... this one a union picture. 

I even got my $3,100 Editors Union Baseball Cap last Tuesday! (yay) Those initiation dues are harsh. 

Anyone who does the work can make it in this business.

Troy Rackley of old Studentfilms.com fame never went to film school but took a chance and moved to LA and guess what.. he worked as an assistant editor on an Oscar winning picture... it's "An Inconvenient Truth" that people must come to realize - anyone can make it in this business.

There's no room for egos... because you know what.. everyone I know who's making their way up with a big ego.. guess what? People don't like working with them... and they don't get as much work.

So yes - please keep it civil on the forums.


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## FLFilmFan (May 20, 2008)

Hey!

I don't think there has been any love lost here!

I think there is a lot of misunderstandings amongst people.  We all have some sort of good intentions amongst us.  Remember, that we are all communicating via a message board and that not everything we say can be interpreted as we intend to.

I know a lot of people here, especially me, have not made it yet in the industry and need every help they can get.  Kindness is a virtue that is not only an advantage but a necessity.  I mean you never know about that forum lurker that makes one post and you say something mean to him.  10 years later, he is the head of NBC/Universal and he looks me in the eye and says, "So YOU are FLFilmFan!  You bastard!  You will (cliche) never work in this town again!"

Some people have gotten mad at me. And somehow I think this post is aimed at me.

Don't get me wrong, I love this forum and it has been an amazing connection to people that I want to work with in the future.

Next year, new applicants will filter through our posts and dates to read about - interview dates, notifications, and such (so long ago it seems doesn't it!).

To tell you the truth, I have no where else to go to to talk about Graduate Film Schools.  I don't think there is anyone within a 75 miles radius of me that even applied.

I am grateful to have this forum and I wouldn't be the same without you.  Can we have makeup sex now?

Andy


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## Ryan C. (May 20, 2008)

You know its funny; just yesterday I had someone post something kind of weird in a reference to a post I had made. It is disappointing-- but in keeping with human nature. The cloak of anonymity the internet provides allows many to bring out their adolescent and uncouth behavior. This is one reason I would prefer this forum to be a real names forum. 

There is a real names forum in the video world that I feel exemplifies the best of what is possible in online communication. It is www.dvinfo.net/conf. Because it is a real names forum, I think it has directed the conversations of the forums into a very supportive and productive atmosphere. You no longer have a separate online identity, you are yourself. What you say, how you act reflects upon who you are, not who your avatar is. 

I hope these forums will continue to be the supportive and informative home for many into the future.


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## Kegan (May 20, 2008)

I'm glad I've had a chance to read some of your responses and though, I don't frequent the "Film School" side of the forums very much, I can see how easily it can get out of hand. 

There is no need to point fingers, but clearly emotions are high during this time of year. People are getting into schools that they wanted to, getting into ones they don't want to, not getting in at all and it is reflected in their posts. 

I don't think there's any real need for members to come to this thread and claim that it may be aimed at them. If for whatever reason, you think you're one of the members that is causing others to stay away; don't say anything about it, just change your behavior. 

DVinfo is a real names forum (a good video forum at that) and it definitely does help - I try to use my real name on forums regardless, because I don't feel the need to use a handle any longer. 

I never went to film school, but I won't rule it out. I've been accepted (and rejected) to film schools that I've applied to, but when it came down to it...I just never felt the urge to go (application was purely to see if I would get in or not). 

There is no room for ego, especially on set and those who think they can get away with it, will find out the harsh truth when being told they have to leave.

Keeping the forums civil is of course of the utmost importance, but let's try to rekindle the feeling of community back on these boards...that was the reason I joined in the first place and I'm sure many of you will agree with me.

-Kegan


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## braininabox (May 20, 2008)

Ryan brings up a good point...I think it may strengthen the community atmosphere if there was at least a first name to associate with everyone.

Perhaps in the "Posts/Location/Registered" bar that is underneath every post, a "name" segment can  be added that lists at least a first name and a last initial?

I think that could be very benificial.


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## Winterreverie (May 20, 2008)

I think the names idea is great. Then I believe there is a sense of responsibility to what you say.

Also, I was amazed at how many people thought this post was in reference to them... Its not.

I'm referring (mostly) in general to the atmosphere pervading the forums for the last few months. Lots of school bashing or other disrespectful behavior on all ends.

If you felt even a tad guilty when you read this post, maybe that means you should reevaluate your behavior on the forums to be sure your points come from a place of honesty and not of bitterness or elitism. After all, guilt is our personal gauge of self.

Don't get me wrong, this IS our place to vent or to state our opinions, but it is equally important to be sure that said opinions are grounded in a sense of knowledge and personal experience-- and not just to elevate one's own importance. 

Thanks for hearing me out.


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## CelestiallyEccentric (May 20, 2008)

Has anyone else had the song  _Where Is the Love?_ by Black Eyed Peas stuck in their head since this thread was started? ;D


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## Icarus Ascending (May 20, 2008)

> Has anyone else had the song Where Is the Love? by Black Eyed Peas stuck in their head since this thread was started? ;D



Nah, "Where is Love?" from  _Oliver_. I'm pretty gay.

--IA


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## SD Grad (May 20, 2008)

Yeah, that's the one the came into my head, too.  I know songs from musicals probably more than I know popular songs. 



> Originally posted by Icarus Ascending:
> 
> Nah, "Where is Love?" from  _Oliver_. I'm pretty gay.
> 
> --IA


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## FLFilmFan (May 20, 2008)

Call me crazy, but I had "What is Love?" by Haddaway playing with glow sticks.


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## ToThePoint (May 20, 2008)

> Originally posted by Winterreverie:
> If you felt even a tad guilty when you read this post, maybe that means you should reevaluate your behavior on the forums to be sure your points come from a place of honesty and not of bitterness or elitism. After all, guilt is our personal gauge of self.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, this IS our place to vent or to state our opinions, but it is equally important to be sure that said opinions are grounded in a sense of knowledge and personal experience-- and not just to elevate one's own importance.
> ...



I understand where everyone is coming from, and I'll admit that over the last few weeks the tone of this board has changed, but are all of you not a bit guilty of doing the exact same thing right now? Is it not a bit "pretentious" or "disrespectful" to essentially tell other people how to conduct themselves? Is calling people "d-bags" a constructive manner of conflict resolution. Practice what you preach.

I certainly respect where you all are coming from, and believe me, I'm on your side, but this kind of behavior is on every site, everywhere, everyday. The only way to stop it is to remove the forum, which I highly doubt the administrators are about to do over a few childish posts.

As for the industry being easy to break into... I have to monumentally disagree with you guys. Can an average Joe grab a camera? Sure. Does that mean that they have broken into the industry? Not even close. Nonetheless, I doubt that's why people act up on messages boards. 

Bottom line: Ignore them. There's absolutely no sense in letting negative people bother you. You all seem very intelligent, so why let someone trying to get their jollies off by putting you down get the best of you?


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## CelestiallyEccentric (May 20, 2008)

> As for the industry being easy to break into... I have to monumentally disagree with you guys.



Exactly who said that the TV/Film industry was easy to break into? I haven't heard anyone say that in any posts I've read. Anyone who claims that getting into the industry is "hard" or "easy" is missing the point all together. 

It's the energy that YOU put into accomplishing your goals. It's PURE dedication. Mind you, there is more than one way to break into the industry. There are all kinds of internships, and not just for students. There are writers workshops and fellowships that take place in TV/Film studios. You just have to look and keep yourself dedicated to YOUR work and what you feel YOU need to accomplish.  

Here's a quote that Greg Rucka, a comic book/crime fiction writer once shared with me: 

"You have absolutely no control over the industry, you have NO control over talent, all that you have is your DEDICATION to your craft. Keep putting material out there because something will hook on one day."


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## karen (May 20, 2008)

That is a wonderful philosophy.  It's a win-win situation.  You keep doing what you love to do, with passion and determination, and let go of the outcome.

My favourite quote is from Henry David Thoreau:

"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with success unexpected in common hours."


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## CelestiallyEccentric (May 20, 2008)

> Originally posted by karen:
> That is a wonderful philosophy.  It's a win-win situation.  You keep doing what you love to do, with passion and determination, and let go of the outcome.
> 
> My favourite quote is from Henry David Thoreau:
> ...



_PERFECT!_ Thank you!  *HIGH FIVE* It's all about the passion and dedication to your dreams.


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## ToThePoint (May 20, 2008)

"Exactly who said that the TV/Film industry was easy to break into? I haven't heard anyone say that in any posts I've read. Anyone who claims that getting into the industry is "hard" or "easy" is missing the point all together."

Then I suppose you are "missing the point," because you did.

"You wanna know what I think it is? Ego. Plain and simple. I think part of the reason people are acting so disrespectful is because there is a myth that it's "hard" to get into the industry. This is not true. Anyone who sets their mind to accomplishing their goals will get to where they are because they deserve it for their hard work." 

And, in agreeance to what you said, so did the owner/founder of this website.

"This is completely true. Anyone cane make it if they are determined."


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## braininabox (May 21, 2008)

Please don't let this break out into an argument over whether or not its easy to break into the industry. That would be kind of counterproductive to the point that people were trying to make here 

I did come across a g ood article on this the other day Here 
that points out two common misconceptions people have.


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## CelestiallyEccentric (May 21, 2008)

> Originally posted by braininabox:
> Please don't let this break out into an argument over whether or not its easy to break into the industry. That would be kind of counterproductive to the point that people were trying to make here
> 
> I did come across a g ood article on this the other day Here
> that points out two common misconceptions people have.



Who said anything about a fight? Your the only one bringing this up.


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## karen (May 21, 2008)

Those are scrappy words, C.E.!  Ha ha.  

Is it just me or is it irritating when people repeat the post they're responding to?  I'm presuming people on a thread are posting something relevant to the topic...so why the urge to specify the precise comment one is replying to?  I find it interrupts the flow of the conversation, which we're all participating in.  The quote thing seems PM to me...not to be critical, mind.  The love is aflowin'


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## MeGrimlock (May 21, 2008)

Enh, I don't know if you're referring to just the school side of the board or not, regardless, crappy flamers are a fact of life.  And if this board has taught me anything it's that this industry is a great breeding ground for them.  The real solution is to grow your ego to the point of not taking it personally.  It's simple enough, you should know you're smarter than the prick running his mouth just for the sake of it.  When you're at that point it turns from bullying to you laughing at the guy trying to hurt your feelings.

elliott (otiose)...


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## Kyle Johnson (May 21, 2008)

_I feel a million miles away_
_I dont feel anything at all_


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