# USC screenwriting vs Tv-Film Production,



## Lvn (Mar 9, 2010)

(Oh boy, this is gonna be a long one.)

Hello, people of student filmmaking forum,

First of all, I would like to thank each and every one of you for your assistance in making my dreams come true. Believe it or not, I wanted to get into USC since I was 10 years old, and I got invaluable assistance from the posts here. I will surely come back and help out other prospective students in the future. 

Now I ask for your help one more time. I need to make a choice between studying screenwriting or TV/Film production. This is a ridiculously important choice that will determine the rest of my life and I want to be informed as much as possible. If there was a similar thread about it in the past, I apologize, but I searched the first 15 pages and there were none. 

Here are a few questions/facts:

A) Am I right to assume that a screenwriting training, for me, would be less valuable than a TV/Film production one? I am arrogant enough to believe that I " know " writing. Case in point, when my interviewer asked me why I applied to TV/Production as well as Screenwriting I simply answered: " I sit in front of the computer and the writing flows through me. It's easy and natural. I don't believe I have much to learn in that department. "

And I really believe that, you know. What I expect from a screenwriting program is the following: Networking, a close circle of friends who will critique and help me out, teachers who will read my writing and help me out... But not learning, per se. At least nothing I can't learn from the books, structurally speaking. I have already devoured books of Robert Mckee and Pamela Anderson. I know how to break acts, scenes, beats and all that jazz. But I'm wondering what I will miss out... Say, if I go to the Production division, will I be missing the necessary networking opportunities to sell my scripts? Or are the communities more tightly-knit than I'm being led to believe? Can I go to Production division and still manage to make a sell? Are there people who graduate from the production division and end up writing for TV?

On the other side of the coin, I believe I have a lot to learn from the Production division. I can't even hold a camera properly, the technical side of things is dangerously opaque to me. The whole process will definitely challenge me much more, and again, I will " learn " a lot. I think I might fail to succeed as a director and still get work as a writer, but the vice versa is pretty impossible.

B) How will the job opportunities differ? Here's a fun fact, I'm from Turkey and unless I find a job straight out of USC, I will be forced to return back here. And I don't want that, not at all. I want to root myself in L.A. and die there. ( Or in New York, but that's for another thread  ) I'm pretty adamant on this, whatever my job is, I don't want to return to Turkey once I'm gone. I am not fond of this country, and it's going down the crapper fast and I can't see myself raising a family with in this cluster-**** of religious and nationalist mania.

It seems to me if I graduate from the Production division it will be easier to find a job. I will have the technical skills, be it editing or sound-mixing or directing, and even if it turns out that I suck, I will still be able to capture a steady gig. Not so with writing, if I don't make a sell right out of the gate, ( And let's be realistic here, I fancy myself a jolly good writer but that's just not a bet I want to take ), what skills will I have? Which jobs will I be able to I work in? I'm really in the blind here, so I would appreciate any input you guys can give.

C) The simple-but-hard question; which one do I want? I don't know, for the life of me. I definitely want to work in TV and many of my idols are people who are either show-runners, Matthew Weiner, Aaron Sorkin, etc, or those that direct television, Michael Rhymer, John Dahl, Rodrigo Garcia etc. 

I love the concept of the writer's room. Eight people of similar minds, bouncing ideas, writing together... Sounds like an utopia to me. I'd love that, I'd love that so damn much. But I'd also love to direct and realize those visions, even my own if need be. To sculpt dreams out of reality like that, it's such an exhilarating feeling. And who says I can't both write and direct... Jesus, man, I really don't know. This is one thing I will definitely need to resolve myself. But on the other hand, I'm pretty sure I'm not the first one to feel that this is an agonizing choice. Again, any of your input, no matter how peripheral, is absolutely welcome. 

D)The cost. Screenwriting is 2 years. Production is 4 years plus the thesis project, which, I know, costs a ton. 

Cards on the table, I'm a lucky son of a *****. My family has a considerable amount of money and... As I said, I'm lucky as hell. That being said, we are not " that " rich. The difference between the cost of the programs, which is at least to the north of 100k, is quite the burden. 

My family is saying they are supportive of me in whichever choice I make. And yet they are talking about renting our home and moving to another house so they can pay my tuition. I also have a younger brother, who hasn't even entered an university and I'm guessing, no matter what my parents are saying, my decision will affect him.

On the other hand, studying for 4 years in L.A. is very attractive. It gives me more time to entrench, network and, I guess, would simply facilitate me finding a job as opposed to the 2 year writing program. But will it be... worth it, in the end?

In conclusion, I thank you all once more, both in retrospect and in advance. I hope you will get into your dream school and if that happens to be USC, I hope we'll meet up and hang out. And trust me, I still can't believe my luck. 

Sincerely, 

A confused and bedazzled future-Trojan.


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## Jayimess (Mar 9, 2010)

Congrats on the double win!

Here's the thing...neither program will guarantee you a job ANYWHERE.  So stop setting unreasonable expectations.  

Based on what you wrote, production might be your best bet because you can dip into all of the crew positions you speak of and learn/improve/master them...as a production-inclined writing student, I was able to take a decent amount of production classes, but I also spent an optional third year in school to do so...the classes don't mix well, so you can't really take the production classes while deep in your thesis.  It'll burn you up.

At the same time, your confidence about your writing ability may waver once you're here...a certain level of arrogance drives us to even apply, but I can guarantee that you still have lots to learn, even if you're just learning how to take notes and write in the industry environment instead of just for yourself.  I have all the books, too, but the classes are where I thrive.  The mentorship of these professors is invaluable.  But if you think you know it all, then you'll be bored, if you're right, and if you're wrong, you might learn something.

The only TV writing class you can't take as a production student is the TV thesis with Pam Douglas, that's for writing students only.  You can take both format spec and pilot classes, the only one I never took was 1/2 hour pilot.  There is also a sketch class that is open to everyone.

The only TV production limitation you have as a writing student is that you can't bid on above-the-line positions on the annual Drama Pilot production (development and Act I are in fall, Acts 2-3 in spring), which has specific sections depending on your major...only PR students can direct/shoot/produce, etc., and as such, they tend to be the creators/showrunners, but one writing student petitioned to do that last semester and was allowed into the PR section, though I don't think they chose his show.  

In the Sitcom Pilot (fall only), you can bid for and be named any position as a student in the class, I was one of the three directors chosen last year and it was a great experience.  I think there might be a few technique classes in the production department that  you won't have access to, but they're mostly undergraduate.  Don't quote me on that part.

You will have to make films and take film writing classes no matter which program you choose, in your first year.  It's non-negotiable.

In broad strokes, as a production student, you won't get access to all of the writing department perks...certain film profs only teach writing majors only, the Script List remains for writing students even though First Pitch opened up to Writing-Track PR students for the first time this year...apparently that's not a long-term situation, by the time you graduate it may be just writers again. 

As a writing student, you will not be able to take all of the production classes you want, unless you really fight for them...and even then it will be a struggle. 

Every year, there are production students who wish they had taken the writing program because it's all they want to do...not so much the opposite, though...

Um, one thing that might matter to you is that you can remain enrolled at USC for up to seven years as a production student, plenty of people stay on as full-time students while job-searching for 2-4 credits a semester under the guise of "thesis post-production."  Writers must be out in three, and full-time is 8 credits.  For your visa issues, that might be a variable.

Back to career prospects...out of my 2009 would-be graduating class of writers, three or four had dream TV jobs out of the gate, staff writer on a TV show before graduating, writer's assistant on a TV show before graduating, and assistant to a showrunner.  Most have representation, at the very least managers.  Plenty are working in the industry in jobs that have nothing to do with making money as a writer or a director...editors, development execs, assistants, agencies/management companies, and some are working in "dayjobs," i.e. restaurants, retail, etc.  And still others are still riding whatever gravy trains their families or spouse provide, waiting for it all to happen.  (I don't mean that in a lazy or negative way, but they're just writing their butts off without fear of eviction!)

On the production side, few of my friends are near graduation.  One who graduated last year is a PA on a TV show.  The rest are free-lancing with their various skills, or working for copy/credit/meals.  Otherwise, the song's the same as writers...

I got my first paying gig (as a PA) through an internship that I got because a prof put in a good word for me, and I got my latest paying gig as a PA because I know the director from my program.  I got my first paid writing assignment because of faculty recommendations.

I don't know how Visas work per se, but everything I've done has been contract work, with gaps in between, and the salaries combine to just over $10K over time.  It's not enough, but each one is another chance to show my abilities, meet new people, and hopefully get noticed enough to lead to the next gig...which you'll be doing within the program as well.

The programs aren't divided on purpose, it's just that everyone's really busy and we don't have too much forced interactions...but it's up to you how well you network.

I don't know if the additional info helps you make the decision, but I hope it does.  This is a choice only you can make, of course.

Congrats again.


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## Lvn (Mar 9, 2010)

Hello Jayimess,

I bow before thee. Thank you for being the information well that you are 

Seriously, thanks. 

I really don't want to spend those extra years, which could help me a lot, because the tuition would drive me - and my family - to the ground.

I understand what you say about " classes " being " where you thrive. " I'm the same way, I work best when I'm under a trusted mentor or with fellow skilled students. That's one thing I definitely don't want to miss. 

Also, what makes you think the Script list could be closed for future PR-track students? And why do they even close it in the first place? 

See, this is what freaks me out: " Every year, there are production students who wish they had taken the writing program because it's all they want to do...not so much the opposite, though... " 

I can definitely see myself as one of those people. Argghhh, I'm sorry, I know I'm just thinking loud at this point. And yeah, I'm the one who has to make the decision but... Jesus, is it a toughie.

And one more question, I want to work extensively in Television. Should that weigh into the decision at all, or will it be similar either way?

Also, you probably said it in another thread, but could you repeat how much a " normal " year costs, both for writers and production students? I also heard that you have to pay a lot out of your pocket in some of the production classes, how much are we talking about here?

Anyway, I appreciate your time. Greatly.

Take care of yourself, I'll be trying to find a wall to bash my head against.


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## Lvn (Mar 10, 2010)

Also, one more question. I know that production track will ask you to choose a specialization after year 2. How strict is this and how much influence do the students have over this decision? How is it even made?

Thanks again.


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## Lvn (Mar 10, 2010)

Hey, me again 

Another question: Is there any way to ease the financial burden on my family if I select the production program? Scholarships are probably very rare, but maybe I can work as an assistant or something?

Jayimess, bless me with thy knowledge please!


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## DreamsOnJupiter (Mar 10, 2010)

> t I will miss out... Say, if I go to the Production division, will I be missing the necessary networking opportunities to sell my scripts? Or are the communities more tightly-knit than I'm be



I am a little fuzzy on your post. Have you been accepted to both or are you hypothesizing about which program you should apply to?  If you haven't applied yet, it may be a bit premature to "choose" a program.  If you are accepted to both, pick which you would rather be: a writer or a filmmaker.


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## Lvn (Mar 10, 2010)

Yeah, I got accepted into both.

I want to be both, that's the problem. Also, as I wrote in my original post, there are a number of different factors in the equation. Not such a simple choice.


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## yonkondy (Mar 10, 2010)

Aren't screenwriters 'filmmakers', too?

And Lvn, I got into Production. But I will still probably get into one or two Screenwriting programs.

For me, Directing is being good at everything, or at least having a knowledge of how everything comes together. That's why I am most likely going to take USC up on it.

I too feel I have a firm grasp on writing. Sure, it's not tried and tested Hollywood writing, but I can always develop that.

What I can't learn how to do myself, however, is Directing. Pre-production. Working with actors. Making days. Post-production. There's just too much of it. Writing, to my naive understanding, is you, your MacBook, and a few people to collaborate with.

It still seems like most Aaron Sorkin-like television shows arise from writers/producers. You seem to be very passionate about that aspect.
Perhaps your whole 'not knowing how to hold a camera' problem would be remedied to a sufficient extent in the Screenwriting track? I'm sure you'll have a chance or two.

Good luck!
Jon


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## Lvn (Mar 11, 2010)

Hey Jon,

Yeah, I know what you mean. In fact, if you guarantee me a job as a staff writer in a TV show just after I graduate... Then there would be no problem  But it's not so simple, I have to think about my career prospects, especially near-future career prospects, if I want to stay in LA. That's probably my deal-breaker right now. 

Anyway, thanks for the good luck wishes. I'll probably see you either way, so if you happen to run into a slim Turkish guy having a bad hair day... That's me 

Take care.


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## nunu (Mar 11, 2010)

Hey Lvn,

Ben 4 senedir new york'ta animasyon, tasarim okuyorum. Hep filme kayma dusuncesi vardi aklimda o yuzden o konudada dersler aldim ve burdaki bazi graduate filmlerde calistim, dar butceli filmlerde PA lik yaptim filan. tabii USC NYU gibi bir okula gitmedim, ben Parsons'dan undergrad olarak mezun oldum ama burda kaldigim surece icinde ogrendigim pek cok sey oldu. BUnlardan birisi de neyi iyi yapiyorsan onu mukemmel seviyeye getirebilmendir. Cunku eger mukemmel degilse zaten ny veya la de is bulman cok zor cunku burda herkes cok mukemmel ve profosyonel!  

ayrica burasi da turkiye gibi her yerde contactlarin olup olmamasi ustune calisiyor. mesela buyuk film sirketlerine lions gate, paramount etc, icerden birileri seni sirkete refere etmeden girmen cok zor. la de olmanin yarari okurken staj yapabilecegin pek cok firma olmasi ve sonunda contactlar edinmeye baslarsin diye dusunuyorum ama production dan mezun olan pek cok graduate gidip producer assistanligi yapiyor yada editor olarak calismaya basliyor, cikip kendine yonetmen olarak is bulman bayaa zor bir durum yani. ama hayallerin icin durmadan calistigin takdirde yapilamiycak birsey oldugunu zannetmiyorum ama buraya gelince goruceksin cok fazla yetenekli insan var. eger ileriye donuk aklinda illa yonetmen olacagim diye bir dusunce yoksa, veya pek emin degilsen ve cok iyi yazabiliyorsan bence screenwriter lik daha iyi. cunku aslinda hikayenin basarili olmasi film icin en onemli faktorlerden biri. screenwriter olarak sonra yonetmenlige de kayabilirsin istersen. kamerayi tutmayi ogrenmek pek de onemli degil yani. hatta bence produksuyon okuluna giderken verecegin okul parasiyla 2-3 fazladan kisa film cekmek daha yararli bile olabilir sonucta bu isi yapan insanlarla cevrili olacaksin. ama senin kararin tabii, ben daha yeni mezun oldum universteden(Gecen sene) bana 3-4 yil daha o kadar para dokup okumak manasiz geliyor ama kendimi denemek icin basvurdum bi kac okula (galiba hicbirine giremedim gercii )  

ama senin kararin tabii, bnce yaziyorsan yazmayi birakma derim cunku birakinca elinden kayip gidiyor. 

cok tebrikler iki bolume birden kabul edildigin icin! icinden hangisi geliyorsa onu sec bence, o zaman dogru karar verirsin kesinlikle. hersyin en iyisini diliyorum! 

nn


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## Lvn (Mar 12, 2010)

Selam nunu,

HiÃ§ beklemiyordum burada Ã§ok komik oldu bi anda tÃ¼rkÃ§e okuyunca  

Abi i?te hakl?s?n tabi, nede iyiysen onu mÃ¼kemmel yapmak laz?m da... ??te ben anlam?yorum yazarl?k olarak ne Ã¶?renebilirim. GÃ¶tÃ¼ kalk?kl?k de?il vallahi, yani hani belki yetene?im de yoktur, yaz?lar?m da iyi de?ildir ama olay?n teknik k?sm?n? o kadar yalay?p yuttum ki ne Ã¶?renebilirim emin de?ilim. 

Ama galiba writing seÃ§meye daha meyilliyim bu aralar... SonuÃ§ta gerÃ§ekten en ideal olarak kendini nerede gÃ¶rmek istiyorsun dersen... Writing k?sm?nda galiba. 

Bilmiyorum am?na koim - oh be, ne rahat kÃ¼fretebilmek -, kafalar? k?r?yorum, Ã¼Ã§ gÃ¼ndÃ¼r uyku yÃ¼zÃ¼ gÃ¶remedim. Ã‡ok komik yani hayalim gerÃ§ek oldu ve ben Ã§Ã¶ktÃ¼m 

Hadi, iyi bak kendine. Sa?ol.


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## Silverlenz (Mar 12, 2010)

Wow....it sure would have been nice to know what you guys said in the last two post. What language are you guys talking int? Turkish?

SilverLenz


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## Lvn (Mar 12, 2010)

Heh, yeah. I didn't expect to find a Turkish post, so I just replied back.

To translate... Man, that would take some time but... He basically introduced himself, told what he did and what not, then gave some useful advice and I thanked him. 

Either way guys, I still haven't decided so any advice is still welcome.


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## Jayimess (Mar 12, 2010)

The Script List is ONLY for Writing students, it's First Pitch that has opened up to Production.  I'm not sure why exactly...Production used to have its own "Scriptfest" for a couple of years, now they've joined us, and it's my understanding it's not a long-term plan.  Also, each program presents unique opportunities for their specific students, so there is no requirement that PR students be a part of First Pitch or the Script List, just as our films don't go to First Look, which Production promotes, and only Starkies get the summer internship program that Stark touts.  Each division does its own thing.

As I said before, you will have to take classes in film and television regardless of which major you take.  Take a look at the curriculum, don't take my word for it.  It's all right there on the website,  www.cinema.usc.edu 

Regarding "Choosing a specialization," you choose that.  Why would the school choose it for you?  It's not a conservatory, you just choose what classes you want to take each semester, if you wanted to take seven years to take every class they offer, you could.  The same thing for choosing your writing track.  If you want to focus on docs or tv or narrative film, there are tracks within each crew position/emphasis for you to do that.

Take a look at the curriculum, people.  Don't take my word for it.  Learn about where you're going before you commit all of this money to it.

The same goes for the financial aid.  There are tons of scholarships at USC, you just have to earn them.  I refuse to discuss my funding on this board, nor do I wish to boast, but I have gotten scholarship money every year I have attended USC.  

I did two assistantships, but I actually didn't try to do them most semesters because I only cared to assist classes that would benefit me as a student as well, and those don't always line up with your schedule.

That being said, with the exception of the merit awards, which are blind-submitted, financial need does come into play when they disburse money.  So having parents that are willing and able to help you needs to be something you celebrate.  

There are tons of jobs on campus as well, with wages starting anywhere from $8 to $14 per hour, and it's not always necessary to have work-study, or sometimes it's only necessary your first year.

Look, you are way too soft on this, LVN.  Maybe Production is the way to go because you have a year to test the waters before committing to anything.

VonKondy, you can learn how to direct by doing.  Plenty of directors never sat in a classroom.  The things your directing classes will focus on will be working with actors and blocking.  It's when you actually direct films that you figure out the rest.  

Writers do have to take 507, and will make short films.  Also, there are webisode classes within the writing division, and I already described the sitcom pilot above.


Finally, nobody can guarantee you a staff writer job just after you graduate.  The ONE person who got that job did a whole lot more than go to USC to get where s/he did, and was also in the right places at the right times...there is a lot left to the alignment of the stars in this industry.

Again, NOBODY CAN GUARANTEE YOU A STAFF WRITER JOB JUST AFTER YOU GRADUATE.  It's quite possible, and has happened before, but typically, that's just simply not how television works.


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## Lvn (Mar 14, 2010)

No, no, I know that.

And yeah, I am too soft on this, you are right. 

And thank you. 

I have two, hopefully, last questions:

1- Is it realistic to think that I could work on becoming a screenwriter while I'm studying in the Production program? I heard it's a ridiculously busy program and I won't have the time to scratch my head, let alone write&market scripts in my spare time.

2- The Production program lists " Writing " as a specialty. I checked and there are a lot of writing classes, however how short are they from the original " Screenwriting " program? If I don't like the production stuff, can I focus on writing and graduate a " writer " from the production program anyway? I know some of the classes are not available, but any " unofficial " differences? 

Thanks a lot, Jayimess. I don't go for religious imagery usually, but you're a real blessing.


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## Lvn (Mar 15, 2010)

A shameless bump?

I'm a-runnin' out of time.


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## Jayimess (Mar 15, 2010)

I've given you all this information already, Lvn.  Please look again.


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## Lvn (Mar 16, 2010)

Alright, I'm sorry to bother you - I was thinking maybe you had a few things to add. 

But it's cool, I think I decided for Writing. 

Take care, and thanks.


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## Jayimess (Mar 16, 2010)

It's not a bother, Lvn.  I just said all there was to say.  

Congrats on your decision!


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## Lvn (Mar 18, 2010)

Thank you. Really.

If you're still there by the time I arrive, I'll buy you a dinner or something. It's the least I can do for you


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