# AFI vs. CHAPMAN: Strength of Students



## seventhshade (May 13, 2008)

I'm opening up this post to further my exploration of the quality of students each school accepts and produces. I've spent the last week exploring both schools, sitting in on classes and attending screenings, and ultimately am trying to come to a conclusion as to which school I will commit. After seeing a screening of eight graduate thesis films at Chapman, I was pretty disappointed, but are those films an accurate representation of the work that is being done there? However one film I really did enjoy. True, it may not be fair to judge the body of students based on one screening, but I found myself wondering how these films were greenlit. Perhaps there isn't a green light process for thesis films at Chapman, whereas the AFI faculty green lights the best films each year. Anyway, please weigh in with any comments and let's get this debate going.


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## mckinnod (May 13, 2008)

I think the reputation of AFI draws significant attention from only the best of the talent pool.  Likewise, when AFI interviews potential fellows they can choose from highly qualified individuals who are already commited to the program regardless of their acceptance into other programs.  I do, however, beleive that Chapman students are equally as qualified.  
     As for myself I only applied to AFI and Chapman and while I interviewed at AFI it was unfortunately not in the cards for me.  Realistically I wanted to go to Chapman from the get go; I wanted to be a part of this new program and hopefully help build a resounding positive reputation.  Also, the commitment by Chapman in building the new conservatory and Knotts Studio while also hiring some of the best professors from the greatest programs was enough to convince me that it was the right place for me.  
(I don't know if this helps.)  
Seventhshade, which dept. were you accepted into?  And what interests you about the programs?  And what do you foresee as the benifits of each program for yourself?  

Perhaps we will meet in the future...
Donald


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## Bandar Albuliwi (May 13, 2008)

Seventh,

I say you go to AFI!


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## seventhshade (May 13, 2008)

I applied and was accepted into both schools' producing programs. AFI has a very strict and thorough curriculum that is building on top of students' previous knowledge of film upon entering the program, whereas Chapman does give you a lot of entry level stuff your first year. Still, Chapman's program is flexible to accommodate students with more experience. It's very hard to gauge the differences between students in each school, but I believe the one way we can do this is by examining the films that come from each. Both schools have produced some good films, but I would argue that since AFI has faculty oversight in selection of thesis scripts, the quality of the material is boosted from the get go. If Chapman allows their directing students to choose whatever they want for their thesis, then the strength of the script is solely at the directing student's discretion. I see a problem in this and it was evident when I saw six thesis films back to back, only one of which I would have made. There are benefits of each school but I am also curious how both schools are perceived among the industry and which do you think would better your chances of a teaching position later in life based on the school's name alone? Comment away!


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## mckinnod (May 14, 2008)

I would like to beleive that your thoughts on Chapman are incorrect.  There is a little said about AFI producing tract in another conversation on this site comparing AFI to another school-but I can not speak to much on this because I do not have any answers that would be anything more than heresay.
I can state that an aquaintance of mine produced "Mamitas" out of Chapman and he had nothing but the best things to say about the program. Another thing you must remember is that to a certain degree you will have options on which scripts you want to be a part of>  
you can not go wrong with AFI they have a very strong reputation while at Chapman you may have to work a little harder to make the connections you may otherwise gain at AFI simply by going to AFI


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## Anton4Cine (May 14, 2008)

Chapman accepted me without seeing any of my work, without any phone or in-person interviews, strictly based on my GPA and letter of intent.

AFI selected me from a pool of applicants based on my visual work. then i had to fly in from NYC, after that they decide on who gets in.....


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## seventhshade (May 14, 2008)

mckinnod,

Mamitas was a great film, however in the DVD the school sends out that features this film, it is the stand alone diamond in the rough. As a producer, how many of these stories can I expect to find? I feel like the opportunities to produce great stories at AFI will outweigh those at Chapman.


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## redpokiepenguin (May 14, 2008)

It's tough to say really. I had to send in work for both schools AND fly in for interviews for both schools. It has been said that Chapman will accept people they think are already strong candidates without interview or additional work. Also they ask for additional work mostly from directors. From what I've been told is AFI's producing program is more centered on line producing. They do a really good job teaching you how to do things when they need to get done but not so much on how to get a project you're interested in off the ground. In that sense I was really apprehensive to choose AFI.


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## seventhshade (May 14, 2008)

Red,

Were you accepted to AFI's program?


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## seventhshade (May 14, 2008)

Also,

I've spoken with many current and past producing students who have expressed that the program is not specifically line producing. Sure, that's a part of it, but the collaborative process is a huge part of the program. Plus, all students have the opportunity to submit a thesis script for consideration. At Chapman all thesis projects are chosen solely by the directors.


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## Jayimess (May 14, 2008)

Film is a collaborative medium, and thus it's not enough to rely on one person to carry a project.  I respect your investigation of the students, SS.

Every school chooses their students very carefully, but very differently.  I personally don't think it's the strength of incoming students that matters...it's rather snobbish to do so, considering they're coming to a school to learn.  

It's the strength of the outgoing students that counts, and what they're being taught.  I don't go to Chapman, but a significant chunk of their faculty has come from AFI -Dill, Rose, Magyar, etc.- in the last couple years.  That they would leave an evergreen institution like AFI, in LA proper, to go to a newer program in OC has to give one pause.

I'm sure money's being flashed, and thus a good incentive to move south, but that doesn't diminish their ability to teach, does it?

It also makes you wonder why they left AFI.

I've also heard repeatedly that AFI's PP is more line producing and less creative/development, but I don't know either program from experience. 

Seventhshade, if I may be so presumptive, it sounds as though you're good and ready to go to AFI.  Are you waiting for someone to talk you out of it?

What are your reservations??



Looking forward to meeting all of you AFI cats this fall.  (My roommate's an incoming editing fellow)


Good luck with this difficult decision, SeventhShade.


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## seventhshade (May 14, 2008)

Jayimess,

I'm tempted to be part of newer program with an abundance of resources. And the cost of each program is unfortunately a deciding factor for me.  I believe that the faculty is great at Chapman, but most of those who have gone to Chapman still teach at AFI. I think they do two days at each school a week. You're at USC, right? I disagree that it is snobbish to let the strength of the students influence my decision and I do believe that film is a collaborative medium. This is a hard process and trust me, I am doing EVERYTHING I can in these last few weeks to make the best decision. I do want someone to argue for Chapman's students. There will be great students in each program, but I feel that AFI will bring in a more seasoned group of students to shape their narrative voices and I strongly believe the producer does have a great influence on each project that he participates in.


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## mckinnod (May 14, 2008)

SS,
In some ways I envy you and in other ways I do not.  For the past six or so years I have dreamed of going to AFI, to be a part of its fellowship whose legacy and long list of successful graduates have moved me in many ways. I knew I wanted to go to a conservatory program which emphasizes the collaborative effort that I find neccessary to filmmaking. But, when I went about actaully applying to graduate programs I noticed the emergence of a new film program, a program whose cine dept would be headed by the guy I had heard such great things about from his previous students and have wanted as my own mentor.  For me, if I was accepted into AFI I would have had a very tough time saying no though I had already decided that I wanted to go to Chapman from the outset.  Fortunately for me I received both letters on the same day and though I had thought I did very well in my interviw at AFI I was not accepted.  In some ways I am very sad that I was not invited to  AFI-it was a blow to my ego that I have not suffered in many years-but in other ways I am very thankful.  
Chapman has many great things to offer.  I have heard it argued on this forum that it is too new at the moment but I would argue differently.   I think I have been given the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of something very exciting.  I think that it goes without question that the resources at Chapman are top notch.  I also beleive that the profs will be superior to anything I have encountered in my own experiences and will be able to offer the guidance I need since I will only have to share them with 14 others rather than the 28 at AFI.  And as for the newness of the program I feel I will be allowed the opportunity to explore my own voice and vision while helping to build a positive reputation.  
I am very excited, it is going to be a great three years and I look forward to the experience wholeheartedly.


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## Dream of a Rarebit Fiend (May 14, 2008)

---------------------------------------------------
I think that it goes without question that the resources at Chapman are top notch. I also beleive that the profs will be superior to anything I have encountered in my own experiences
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"Before the sun comes the Don"

Oh Donald, how can you expect any professor to top the legacy of Don Yannacito!

Congrats on your acceptance -

Here's to trailblazing new programs (I myself am off to Singapore!) - rock on Brakhage...rock on...

Cheers,
Dream of a rarebit fiend


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## Winterreverie (May 14, 2008)

A better gauge may be looking at the top films-- I can send you a link so you can watch them on your computer. Of course this doesn't display the current class so much as the exiting class. Wish you'd stopped by and watched 321's today. Some were amazing-- and they're only first year projects.

Please PM me if you're interested and please do not pass along the site to others as its really only for current students, faculty, and friends.
Thanks!


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## Jayimess (May 15, 2008)

Seventh...

I said that I think it's snobbish to worry about the strength of the INCOMING students.  Those students are coming to grow as filmmakers, not because they already know everything.

I think it's what's learned during study that's important, what's taught and absorbed during one's time in a program.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using graduating students' work as a barometer.

Here at USC, it's not how much experience you have coming in that matters, it's what you leave with...and I would be a liar if I said that didn't color my perspective...amazing films are made here (just got home from a screening a half an hour ago!!), and many students never held a camera before their first day of 507...production experience isn't required to get in, just a love of film and demonstrated storytelling ability.  

As a screenwriting student with a good amount of production experience, sure, it was weird helping my classmates, but I learned more through the process of helping others understand knowledge that I already had.

Does that clarify?

As I said, good luck making this insanely difficult decision.


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