# MFA Admissions- Need Blind?



## JKL (Jan 17, 2012)

Are admissions to MFA programs (i.e. USC, NYU, Columbia, UCLA) need blind?

Does the amount I'm willing/able to pay affect my admission chances?


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## Mike_V (Jan 17, 2012)

blind? as in asking for a contribution?
I doubt it.
It would be a major problem if schools accept you based on how much money you toss at them...


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## km467 (Jan 17, 2012)

Wow--I'm surprised by this topic. I thought this was kind of obvious: whether or not you tick the "need financial aid" box has a huge effect on whether or not you're admitted, particularly if you're an international student. The NY Times' education choice blog, and The Chronicle of Higher Education, have covered this substantially. Look up the subject in those two places, and you'll come back with a lot of articles. Anyone who tells you that your ability to pay full freight in this economic climate has no effect on your application is either a) extremely naive, and has been living in a cave for the past 5 years, or b) an admissions officer being unusually cagey. 

There are exceptions to this trend, but it is a trend. Your application would have to be better than not most, but absolutely all the other applicants, for you to receive a large amount of financial aid as an international student. And even then.

Some personal anecdotes, which you can take with as much salt as you like: 
1. When I went to visit the schools--Tisch and Columbia--the international students I spoke to said they were all paying full freight, with the exception of one at Tisch, who received a $10,000 scholarship. They seemed pretty jaded, one said that they were just there to subsidize the American students.

2. Two of my friends applied to grad schools in both Canada and the US (3 or 4 in Canada, 2 in the US). They did not need financial aid, and were able to provide proof that they could pay the full freight for the American schools (that part of the online form where you give the gist of your financial plan). Both friends were rejected from every school they applied to in Canada, and accepted by both of the programs they applied to in the States. The programs they applied to in the US weren't "easier" to get into--they were their "reach" choices. Canadian schools don't have harder admissions standards. It's just that they could pay--they admit it themselves. 

The fact that you're unaware of the impact of the recession--which caused university endowments to deflate rapidly--on financial aid and admission decisions is a bit worrying. There has been a TON of coverage on all the education blogs I regularly visit. Am I the only one who reads these things, as a grad school applicant? More state schools are accepting out of state students to cover tuition, grad schools are accepting international students who can pay full tuition, and anyone who requires financial aid is now at a bigger disadvantage than, say, in 2006. 

So yeah, in short: it is a "huge problem". It's existed in academia for years (legacy admissions, anyone?), and since 2008 has exploded. Pay up!


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## km467 (Jan 17, 2012)

Some of the articles:

"Colleges Increasingly Look for Applicants Who Can Pay Full Price" http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes...11/09/21/full-price/

http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes...ng-the-fat-envelope/

http://chronicle.com/article/D...-a-Hit-During/48732/

http://chronicle.com/article/W...d-at-Our-Own/129090/


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## lzfx (Jan 17, 2012)

> Originally posted by km467:
> Wow--I'm surprised by this topic. I thought this was kind of obvious ... The fact that you're unaware of the impact of the recession--which caused university endowments to deflate rapidly--on financial aid and admission decisions is a bit worrying. There has been a TON of coverage on all the education blogs I regularly visit. Am I the only one who reads these things, as a grad school applicant?



there's no need to be condescending.


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## km467 (Jan 17, 2012)

My bad. I am kind of an edu-blog junkie, so my perspective is probably a bit out of whack with those who don't spend a lot of time obsessively reading higher ed mags.


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## i_spit_hot_fire (Jan 17, 2012)

Not to mention that film MFAs don't operate like the traditional art degree, but rather a professional degree (i.e. they rarely offer grants or scholarships like a poetry or fiction MFA might). None of these top schools are going to pay your way, nor are they obligated to.  Much, if not all the aid will likely be in the form of loans. The schools get paid regardless. 

Now, it doesn't do the department and admissions committees any good to admit sub-par students who can pay 100% out of pocket.  That's not the business they are in.  They are looking for artists with the potential to succeed and ultimately reflect well on their program. This may be an abhorrent trend in Undergraduate admissions, but I don't see the "need box" having a huge effect on a graduate application.

(I know this doesn't apply to international students, who are required to show they can pay).


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## JKL (Jan 18, 2012)

Thanks for your replies! 

@Dang Man! and i_spit_hot_fire - It's reassuring for me to know that Grad admissions are pretty much determined by the professors. And thinking about it, it makes sense since interview requests are normally reported early to late February and financials are required later. 

@km467, thanks for the info, but like what others before me have said, it seems like the articles are specifically referring to undergraduate institutions.


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## km467 (Jan 18, 2012)

Well, it's good to know that not everyone is as cynical as I am.  I still think that admissions aren't need blind; 4,800 people applied for 300 undergrad and grad spots at USC's film school in 2010 (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/m...yu-ucla.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=film school&st=cse). You can imagine that there were hundreds who were very qualified, and if everyone looks like they could reflect well on the program, I think money does become a factor at that point.


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## km467 (Jan 18, 2012)

Oh, and a warning: do not read that article unless you want to be deeply depressed. I'm sorry I ever found it.


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## Mike_V (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm not sure what a blind is, but I would assume it's a donation of sorts? if so, the answer would most probably be no. 
if you're asking about financial aid, i wouldn't know. although you should be able to get the general consensus by now.


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