# AFI vs. Chapman for MFA Producing?



## seventhshade (Apr 21, 2008)

Hi guys. Just wanted to open a thread for this discussion as I face the dilemma of choosing between two great programs with each of their own sets of pros and cons. I've pretty much committed to Chapman but haven't said no to AFI. I've toured both campuses and seen films from both schools but still am unsure of the talent difference each school will have. I've seen that AFI is always rated in the top five programs, but I don't think that really says anything. My main concern in choosing a school is to be surrounded by the most talented people with the strongest creative drives. Anyone who has had to choose or knows anything about the programs is free to chime in. I would love to hear your thoughts.


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## Cine (Apr 22, 2008)

I have only one question. Maybe it's dumb, but anyway, how did you manage to watch their student films?


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## seventhshade (Apr 22, 2008)

When you take AFI's tours, they show you a cycle project and a thesis film. Chapman sends you a DVD of about five or six of their thesis films.


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 22, 2008)

I would say go to AFI.  You'll get more connections to the industry.  Chapman is in the O.C, not really "IN" Hollywood.


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## Winterreverie (Apr 22, 2008)

All the profs who "made" AFI are now at chapman. Chapman is not that far from Hollywood. People talk about it like the distance is ridiculous, but they're ill informed. Many students here do internships in LA and Hollywood, some studios are actually closer to Chapman than AFI-- so the "not in Hollywood argument" is likely the dumbest I've heard on this site. Its not like you're in the middle of the country-- You're an hour drive or metrolink ride from anywhere you need to be.

AFI does have the lasting reputation-- since Chapman is new.

AFI is much more production based-
Chapman is more collaborative-

That being said, Chapman attracts better Screenwriters because of the collaboration. At least 2 in my year turned down AFI-- and were never waitlisted.

Where do you want to live? If you thrive on city life (and have money to spare) AFI will fit the ticket.

If you like a quieter place to "escape" with the option of heading to the city when you feel like it Chapman's a better bet.

Talent wise, both are top films schools and you can't really go wrong with either-- great people will and have come out of both.


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 22, 2008)

Winter,

The simple fact is, people who are waitlisted at AFI are often times admitted at Chapman with a ridiculous scholarship.  

Says a lot about the program.  They substitute money for talent.  Compare the films that come out of AFI to the films that come out of Chapman.

Enough said.


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 22, 2008)

And which professors are you talking about?  Because the one professor who I know of who is now the head of a department at Chapman told me AFI is still a much better school.


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 22, 2008)

AFI is much more production based- Chapman is more collaborative?

AFI's model of education is Collaboration, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.


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## Winterreverie (Apr 22, 2008)

Ridiculous scholarship? Where are you getting your facts? Even our GREAT fellowships are not a third of tuition. And that's a shame. But Chapman is definitely not offering money over talent. I actually think on another thread someone DID compare films between the schools and decided Chapman had the top film.

We have Bill Dill, Deszo Magyar, Alex Rose-- are those the people who sent you back to AFI?

I knew people rejected from USC and UCLA accepted into AFI. You can't compare accepted/waitlisted to the programs potential. For the most part each program has an individual personality its looking for. A type of student who'll work well with their vision. Just like each film student should be looking for a program that fits who THEY are.

For you, for instance, Chapman might not be a good fit, generally the incendiary personalities stick out here. Most people are very supportive and down to Earth-- even of fellow programs.

There is a lot of good about AFI, USC, UCLA, NYU, Columbia, etc. In fact each of those have curriculum that bleeds into ours, since many professors come from other programs or are trained elsewhere.

I don't know many screenwriters who choose AFI for the fact that of all its disciplines they seem to get the back burner. I've never heard of a required collaboration there. If I had I would speak up on it. I don't personally know a screenwriter who went there. Everyone I know who was accepted (I don't know anyone who was waitlisted for that specific program) went somewhere else.


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## Jayimess (Apr 22, 2008)

The fact that AFI can never get enough producers terrifies me for some reason...they're still accepting applications for producers (and PD, actually) NOW...five months after their original deadline.

And I'll not speak for Winter, but when I read that collaborative and production sentence, it made me recall what I've heard before more than once about AFI...it's a Director's school.  I also don't know what that means, so there you go.

This is my gut talking here, but as a producer, I'd probably go to Chapman.  My friend from UG, however, got into both for editing, and I'm really glad she chose AFI, because I think you can do no better as an aspiring editor.

I'm sure none of this was helpful.

Good day.


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## Winterreverie (Apr 22, 2008)

LOL-- agreed.


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## Icarus Ascending (Apr 22, 2008)

I have no opinion on any of this, except to second what Winter is saying about AFI screenwriting; that is, it does seem to be objectively less-selective than the other top programs.

For the record: this lack of selectivity is not due to any deficiency on the part of the school; AFI screenwriting is a PHENOMENAL program which rightfully deserves to be OVERWHELMED with applications. Still... it's not. They get some good writers, but overall, their bar for admissions is lower. Which is one reason (among many) that I passed on the AFI offer.

--IA


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## theseus214s (Apr 22, 2008)

I don't want to draw this thread way off topic, but I'm just curious as to how you're basing your judgement of these screenwriting programs.


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## seventhshade (Apr 22, 2008)

Funny how this discussion has become more about screenwriting. My hope was that people would discuss producing, and since Winter has joined, I was really hoping she would say a few things about her experiences with producers at Chapman and what kinds of people it admits in the program. True, AFI is still taking producing applications, but my understanding is that it is to keep their alternate pool going, as some people have turned down initial offers from the school. I myself was recently offered admission off the waitlist.


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## Icarus Ascending (Apr 22, 2008)

Theseus, let's just say this: I have compiled an embarassing volume of data on these programs. It's virtually all I've done at work for the past month.

May I reiterate, AFI screenwriting is a wonderful program that I'd happily recommend to anybody. To be totally honest, had I chosen purely with my heart, I might have chosen AFI. In the end, I chose with my head, which has a vastly better record...

Wait--shouldn't you be glad about this? Didn't you get my spot???

--IA


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## theseus214s (Apr 22, 2008)

Sorry seventh, didn't mean to draw away from your topic.

Haha...Yeah, thanks for that by the way.  I just thought maybe you know something about the program that pushed you away that I'm oblivious to.


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## seventhshade (Apr 22, 2008)

Bandar,

Who at AFI told you that AFI is a much better school? What schools did you apply to and did you apply to Chapman? Any schools turn you down?


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## Winterreverie (Apr 22, 2008)

Screenwriting and producing go hand and hand-- which is why I took it there. I've met fantastic producers at Chapman and most of them truly love their experience here. They produce a small film their first year and work with 2nd year producers for a slightly larger film. Their second year they produce 2 decent sized films and a thesis. But from what I gather-- the most important relationships producers can have is with writers. At least that's what I gathered from Alex rose and Laura Ziskin.


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## Jayimess (Apr 22, 2008)

A couple of other Producing applicants were discussing the fact that they never seem to find enough producers...I don't know if that's because they want too many, or because they all apply to UCLA and Stark.

I don't know.

I can tell you this..."to keep the alternate pool going" sounds suspiciously like "so we can make sure we get 28 people in this year."

I met a recent producing graduate when I visited Chapman, and she loved it...she got to really work as a creative producer, not just be the suit for directors.

That's the impression that I get from AFI...you are more of a line producer for the directors to use at their discretion, than a creative force.

It depends on what you want to do, I think.


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## Winterreverie (Apr 22, 2008)

As far as producing students-- some are phenomenal, some seem very young and leave a little to be desired. by the second year it evens out. The age range is HUGE from 22 to 45. Many have worked previously in other areas of film and professionals are regularly brought in to discuss projects.


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## seventhshade (Apr 22, 2008)

Good info. My tastes are definitely for that of the creative producer rather than the line producer, which is definitely part of the job but it should never end there. I'm hoping Chapman will be collaborative and that everyone will be open to learning from one another. It does seem to be a plus that Chapman is only taking around 14 producers. I also agree that everyone seems to want to go to USC Stark and UCLA. If you look at the facilities at Chapman, they are unmatched. I've toured Chapman and AFI and the differences are astronomical in terms of facilities and equipment. Still, it is hard to judge the talent pool, which is a large determining factor for me.


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 22, 2008)

I applied to NYU and AFI, and was admitted to both programs.  I'm probably going to be attending AFI for Directing.

There's absolutely no point in arguing which program is better.  If you're happy at Chapman, than cudos for you.  

G'luck with your decision guys!


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## redpokiepenguin (Apr 22, 2008)

if anyone uses the book film school confidential as a loose guide it does say that the producing program at afi is more like line producing. Also when I had my interview they said to me, "the producer needs to understand that he/she holds the money and says yes/no to certain requests."


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## BrunoDP (Apr 22, 2008)

I don't understand why certain individuals post their arguments on this page, when they're not even interested in Producing programs. I made it to top 50 at AFI, and then got rejected after the interview. Today I'm a "producer" at Chapman. My mentor is Prof. Alex Rose, who tought for years at AFI. Besides Rose, there are several other individuals who left AFI, to drive 45 miles, and teach at Chapman. Industry people? Rob Reiner was here and said that "Chapman is by far the best film learning facility he visited in a long time". Yes, Chapman doesn't have Oscars and fame, but IT IS the best film studio at the universuty level, and it's open 24/7. Plus, as a producer, I gotta save some money, and I'd rather pay 50,000 (instead of 90,000) for a 2 year program. Peace out!

BrunoDP, MFA in Producing
Chapman U.
tatalovic@gmail.com


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## Bandar Albuliwi (Apr 23, 2008)

I guess I made a mistake -- I didn't know just how unbelievably awesome Chapman is!

thanks for opening my eyes guys...


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## Cine (Apr 23, 2008)

> Originally posted by redpokiepenguin:
> if anyone uses the book film school confidential as a loose guide it does say that the producing program at afi is more like line producing. Also when I had my interview they said to me, "the producer needs to understand that he/she holds the money and says yes/no to certain requests."



I was thinking about buyin this book, could you tell me more about it?


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## redpokiepenguin (Apr 23, 2008)

Hey Cine, 

I wish I could sell you mine. I really don't need it anymore.

In regards to the book, I find it a really nice overview of all the schools out there. For me when I started the process I didn't know schools, or anything, so it was nice to just get it broken down. The problem with the book, however, is that it usually doesn't go into specific disciplines. It tends to focus quite heavily on directing. In certain cases the book goes into specific disciplines but only if the school is known to have a really good one. i.e. it went into usc's and ucla's producing programs. 

Another nice overview is the quick breakdown of costs. Tuition, additional film costs, car stuff, and housing costs (on campus or off.) I'd say get it if you need to know things as a general overview. It's not really shallow but if you know a lot about a program then your knowledge may be greater. I suggest going to barnes and noble or borders and just reading it to see how useful you find it. Hope that helps.  This forum is pretty informative also.


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## seventhshade (May 19, 2008)

I thought I would try to close out the forum by informing everyone of my decision. I finally decided on AFI after a very long research process. Both schools have great benefits but AFI had a program better suited for me. Thanks for everyone's comments along the way.


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## mckinnod (May 20, 2008)

SS,
I hope we can stay in touch in some way or another, I will be regularly visiting your campus and making as many friends up there as possible, but I am heaaded to Chapman.  I will be volunteering at the Mole Richardson Studio on my off days to get better aquainted with your team of fellows and to get more experience in general.  Mr. Parker invited me to volunteer at his Studio when I interviewed at AFI and I am only to willing to take him up on his offer.  I look forward to making your acquaintance,
Sincerely,
Donald Mckinnon


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## Bandar Albuliwi (May 20, 2008)

Welcome to the team Paul!

Donald, let me know when you get to LA.  Would love to meet up!  I'm sure I'll see you on the AFI campus sooner or later.


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