# What should I do



## Nervous Larry (Apr 27, 2006)

I got accepted to NYU last year, my senior year of high school, but had no way to pay for it.
Well I'm pretty much out of options, I'm poor and acan't afford a good school period. I've been accepted to 3 different schools. THis year I tried to cut my losses and get into a really cheap school for the spring semester so I can get my core credits. But the facilities were so depressing that I was really disappointed. Either way I tried to go through with it but the place seriously just went and lost all of my forms, did not tell me, and then expected me to pay 4,000 bucks for their mistake within two days. So I was pretty insulted that they just didn't care and rashly applied to SVA because I figured since NYU was rated worst for financial aid, I'd have a better chance with getting into SVA and I'd still be going to a place that actually cared. Once again, I got in and even though they gave me a ton of aid, I still owed a decent amount of money, and my father's credit was still not good enough to get a loan, and for a student to get one, they have to have very good credit history and a solid 2 year straight employment record, usually at the same job. I tried once again to get into another sub par place for at least some core credits next year (not the same one though- I'm not going through that nightmare again) but now it's past all the deadlines. So I'd have to wait until next spring to even start at a joke school just to start earning core credits. The way I see it, it's not worth it, and it's better if I just focus on movie making period and ditch college. But i know film schools and film programs are incredibly expensive too. 

So I'm wondering what are people's suggestions? Is it worth it to wait another ****ing year, go to a ****ty school and work for 2 years, hope I save up enough money and credit to transfer into a decent film school, ending with lots of debt, or is there a film school route I can take? I want and need to learn the whole creft of it, I'm not cocky and think I can just go out there and wing one. But I know I'll never get the knowledge of film making I need at these joke schools and going there for 2 years while saving just to end up in debt if I'm lucky seems just like more wasted time.

Any suggestions?


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## Hill Dawson Kane (Apr 27, 2006)

What are these places, businesses or schools?  They don't seem to care to much about getting talented dedicated people (which you claim to be) into their programs.  Its like having a really hot girlfriend who just cheats on you all the time, with your best friends too.  You don't put up with that ****, you cut your losses, and you move on to something better.  You don't need "knowledge in film,"
 you need knowledge of yourself, who you are.  These school won't help you find that.  You're putting up with way too much ****, you wouldn't put up with some regular school would you?  They're just relying on their reputation cause they know you will bend over backwards to get in, and they dangle that in front of you.  There are other ways to learn about film if that is what you want, but don't limit yourself to filmschool.  This isn't even a "pros-cons" of film schools rant.  You've just gotta deal with the cards you've been dealt with, and you can always play them better.  If you were trying to make a film on 35mm but had a smaller budget, you wouldn't bang your head into the wall praying for the money to show up, you'd shoot Super 16 instead, and know that most people won't notice or care about the difference anyways when they see it, and know that what the film is about and acting is more important anyways.  Use the same methods you use while you make films to get yourself educated however you want, you just gotta improvise and be persistent.  The money hose won't always do it for you.  It'll always be a great thing to say one day that NYU didn't want you because you couldn't cough up the cash.  It won't reflect poorly on you, thats for sure.


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## Nervous Larry (Apr 27, 2006)

They act like businesses, and they tell me things like how they really love my writing, but then expect me to pay them lots and lots of money I don't have. And they don't have to pay for it, I'm not expecting it to. But it's just discouraging when you want to learn and go to a school BECAUSE you know you'll learn well and that you can't go because of money.


But what you said made me feel better, thanks. I know there are other ways of learning besides film school and college- but that's what I want to know. Im sick of playing the college game, I don't want to waste years saving up so I can spend money on Algebra classes. If I'm going to work my ass off and be in debt, I want it to count for something, I want the knowledge, the things I spend money on, whatever- to further myself as a film maker and further my career.

So that's basically my question. I mean, I have no clue how to shoot in film. Where else am I going to learn something like that without paying a ridiculous amount of money for someone to teach me? I don't know about story structure. I mean, I do, but I'm not that naive to say that I can teach myself. Musicians leanr from teachers and then learn on their own. Unfortunately, no one around here is teaching "film lessons". So as you say, be peristent, I'm reaching out here for some connections- where would you suggest I start looking to learn these things? Save up for filmschool, workshops? How did you go about learning film? Besides watching a ****load of them.

I'm not looking for a deus ex machina here, I know by now that there is no such thing as instant gratification. But I'm depressed and losing motivation, and I'm trying to find a path here so I can start furthering myself, poor or not.


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## Ryan Gomez (Apr 27, 2006)

Being a filmmaker isnt just about learning film stuff. There are alot of non-film classes that can be just as important. 

You think Daron Afronsky made Pi without ever taking a math class?


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## Evan Kubota (Apr 27, 2006)

"You think Daron Afronsky made Pi without ever taking a math class?"

Actually, it seems like it's possible, considering that virtually no actual math is contained in the film  Good, nonetheless.

I do agree that you need to "know stuff" other than just technical aspects. You probably don't want to be a gaffer for your entire life and having a well-rounded body of knowledge is a good way to make yourself something other than an idiot.

Your post sounds disturbingly like you want a film vocational school, which I really don't recommend. You probably want to write or direct. In those cases you need to be more receptive to knowledge in general, and anything you take is going to help you.

If you want to learn about film specifically go to a decent liberal arts school and take theory and criticism classes. For technical stuff (which can be learned rapidly and is not that important) read books or ask on websites like this one. I'm kind of annoyed that there isn't more discussion about actual film production online - most people are happier to discuss the RED camera or what kind of software they use to add explosions 

If you want a great resource regarding story structure and filmmaking in general, try "On Filmmaking" by Alexander Mackendrick. An invaluable book and far better than virtually anything else that I've come across.

'Film school' is not going to teach you how to *make* films. It can ideally give you access to equipment and the basic mental toolset required, but as far as coming up with ideas and performing them, that's your job and no school will help you with that end. To make a music analogy, a teacher can show you where to put your fingers on the guitar to play a certain song or explain chord composition. A teacher can show you *how* to express yourself musically, but can't give you the expression.

What is the extent of your actual experience directing? I recommend practicing and making as many projects as possible even if they aren't very good. If you haven't noticeably improved after 8-9, you might want to look at doing something else.


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## Nervous Larry (Apr 27, 2006)

Oh dear god no. Expressing myself is the only thing I know how to do. Trust me I'm really into film making, Ive made several shorts and music videos of my own, and acted and helped in many projects for my friends. And I've written and directed two 45 minute films and one 65 minute film, the latter actually starring in it (while going to school- plus the whole thing got erased and me and my editor had to RE EDIT the entire thing in 9 days- which was a ****ing miracle). I'm a very self critical person, but I have to say yes, I've improved GREATLY with each film. I've learned a lot of **** just making these things, and re editing a movie 9 days with barely any sleep or food, while going to high school AND starring and shooting my friends movie all at once- has really tought me to stretch myself and just work like a madman. And if anything I've REALLY REALLY grown in my writing and structure. My first movie was a wordy, boring mess, but by the third one I had attempted the 3 part structure and really advanced in editing and re writing the script.


But I'm not naive. I know you don't just go out and say "All right I can wing it". In reality I've made a few dumb movies on a mini dv cam. See, it was always my dream to go to NYU, and I got in senior year. It was the ONLY place I wanted to go to, and when I visited the campus I fell in love with it. So naturally I refused to go anywhere else. But naively I had no way to pay for it and I realized my parents, who said theyd help if I got into NYU, had nothing either. So then this year I applied to a much lesser school, and they ****ed up my financial aid and I wound up not going, so out of frustration I applied to SVA and got in, but once again was SOL, I was hoping to get more AID. It was cheaper and I got more aid, but I didnt even have enough to pay for the entry fee this time (1300 bucks) and couldnt find a local job for the life of me. They offered me a huge scholarship, but it was a long shot and since they never called or sent back, i assume I'm not going there.


So now, stupidly late (can you see a really dumb pattern here?) I've finally faced the fact I have to go to a lesser school, work hard, and if Im lucky maybe someday go to a good school. But I tried the lesser school route, and the facilities were so damn depressing. It's like no one there cared, not even the staff. At places like SVA and NYU they cared about everything, SVA was courteous and prompt...NYU was prompt, not courteous. And this local state school instead would be hard to reach, mislead me, and lose my information. So even when I settled for core credits, they still screwed me over. And I was afraid that would happen again. 


So now pretty much all deadlines are past for every college. I'm too poor to go to a good school, and all my local schools are jokes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be an elitist or say I'm better than anyone. I'm not, in fact, I'm most likely worse.I've just run out of options.


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## Dirty-Harry (Apr 28, 2006)

On a professional set nobody cares what`s the school you are from. Only the latest film you have been on matters.


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## DomRicco (Apr 28, 2006)

I really don't understand all of this nay saying on film schools. And I know it is because none of you go to one. I know a lot of people who went to a normal college and became very successful film makers. Spielberg has a bachelors in English for example. But don't write off film schools completely like these guys. It can prove to be a very valuable experience. And it isn't about "just using equipment". That is an absolute BS attitude to have. It is about being AROUND people with your same creative drive and passion and LEARNING from one another. That is why universities and applied programs have been around for thousands of years. A film school also teaches you the business of film. It provides tomes of connections as well. So in that sense, film school is far and incomparable to learning how to play a guitar. Let's face it, you have to start out at or near the bottom of the totem poll if you want to make a living off of film. The film student will more than likely, not always, get dibs on that spot over an uneducated person. And before anyone quotes me on that, that's the way any industry works. And that is why people have been getting educations for thousands of years. Educated people always get dibs on positions.

Now, I understand your financial strain. But realize about half of the directors out there, famous and not famous, did not go to film school. But...about half of the successful ones did  And in your case before going to film school or not, I would recommend getting yourself on your feet. You have your whole life to make films. And I will tell you, your passion needs 110% of your being. You need to start on the right foot. From the way it sounds you cant go to film school right now. And you also wont be able to produce any quality films right now either. So take your time, get an income, get some credit, and try making some films or giving film school another shot. And if you feel like you need to be educated, the best way to get your general education stuff out of the way is at a community college. That way, if you do end up going to a film school, you will be able to put more focus on film. It is very much possible to make it without going to film school. It will be more of a bumpy road though. Warren Betty said, "You've achieved success in your field when you don't know whether what you're doing is work or play." You will reach this point. And if you love film as much as you say you do, you wont even feel the bumpy road. Good luck, you'll make it either way if you keep a *positive* attidude about either option and you keep that passion burning.

A note Evan:
The site's name is *studentfilms.com*. So stop talking down to us and implying film schools just make idiots and you are better than everyone. Most people on this site are students at a school or want to become film students. Please keep that in mind. Although I think it is great that you provide an "outsiders" view, don't make it like your way is the only way. You are not in film school, so leave the advice on film schools to the people who actually go to school. Easy as that. If you don't like that we discuss the RED camera and not sophisticated material that you think you should be reading then leave the forum and make your own.  May I recommend nonstudentfilms.com? Also, Evan, don't respond to this on the current thread. If you want to, send me a personal message so we can keep Larry's thread productive.


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## mmrempen (Apr 28, 2006)

I think everyone here is singing the same song, and it's a good tune.

I think Dom summed up the motivation you need in that middle paragraph. Just keep a positive attitude. I'm always wondering what'll happen if I miss this opportunity, if I don't make this film, etc, etc - but hey! You have your whole life! Most of the best directors don't get their real starts till mid-30s or 40s! You have a life of learning to do, and like everyone here already said, film school is not the only way to do it.

Best of luck!


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## Evan Kubota (Apr 28, 2006)

How ridiculous. I'm also a student, just not at a film school. For you to imply that anyone not attending a film school can't give advice is absurd.

I never said film school makes you an idiot. Stop putting words in my mouth.

The point was simply that film school is not going to make you a filmmaker or ensure you a job or even improve your chances versus some guy at a random college who does his own work.

"Let's face it, you have to start out at or near the bottom of the totem poll if you want to make a living off of film."

Make a living? What about directing? I don't know many people who start out intending to be a gaffer. A little hint: you don't become a director by starting as a runner. It hasn't worked that way in Hollywood since the 1920s at the latest.

You say that "half" of directors have been to film school, but how many film school graduates, even of a well-regarded program like NYU, actually end up directing? Not nearly that many. I can probably count on two hands the number of alumni from NYU in the past 15-20 years who are now successful directors. Contrast that with the thousands that have graduated in that time and you'll see the 'chances' are not that good.


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## titaniumdoughnut (Apr 28, 2006)

That brings up an interesting point. Very, very few of us in film school succeed. Now, at first, this seems to be a scary situation... out of 400 film freshman 40 will apply to make a senior thesis film, and 20 will do it. This is a daunting situation... until I realize that 9 out of 10 students just don't put everything they've got into their projects. It's very clear that only a few people have the dedication and drive they should have.


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## DomRicco (Apr 28, 2006)

So much for the personal message I asked for...I am truly sorry for riling Evan up Larry. I forget he is a fragile guy. 

Larry, I'll say again and it is important for you to know, you will turn out fine whether you go to film school or not. Don't stress out too much. Directors have made it either way. Film school or no film school, both are going to require dedication to go beyond what is being asked of you. And beyond of what you expect of yourself! We are on your side over here. You have a whole community of film makers here who will help you out. You said it was always your dream to go to NYU. So I say keep trying. But make films inbetween. Don't let anyone discourage you from trying your hardest to get there. That is a diservice to you. Keep it up. I think you are on the right track. Keep being creative and expressing your self through film.

But it is true, again, whether you are in film school or not, i would say 1 in 500 filmmakers actually make it. But, whether you make it or not is all in your hands.  We are all shooting for the stars. What's inbetween us and the star? A bunch of space.


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## CC Chainey (May 23, 2006)

Have you thought about saving your film studies for graduate school? At that point, it doesn't matter what you study -- but most schools are looking for undergrad degrees in something other than film. You can study something at a local school that sucks, and just work hard to do well, then transfer into a better school your junior year (you may get a scholarship as a transfer still). If you do well, you may be able to get enough financial aid for grad school, and you'll have a strong background. You've already done some big films, that's impressive. Frankly, I'm amazed you could make such long films on what must have been very low budgets. I don't doubt you could have what it takes non-$$$-wise. It's just another option, but if you major in something that you don't like much but that can get you a good job for money right after graduation, you can earn the money for grad school.
Good luck!


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## Dirty-Harry (May 24, 2006)

In filmschools your self-criticism grows bigger about your ideas for example, you want everything to be as economical as possible and following all the theories and rules you know about filmmaking. Filmmaking becomes usually also too serious, when you go to filmschool. 
It`s not only your hobby anymore;you should make your living by making films, because you have chosen this fiercely competitive field to be your lifelong career. 

When you don`t go filmschool you aren`t able to express yourself widely enough via visual and auditive tools. You have also lack of contacts to the industry professionals and filmpeople don`t take you serious.


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