# Producers: If you got in everywhere, where would you go?



## poo radley (Mar 26, 2008)

I've applied to 3 producing programs - USC, UCLA and the NYU combined MFA/MBA program. While I haven't heard back from every program yet, I am anticipating some difficult decisions ahead.  

I was wondering what people thought were the most relevant differences between these schools overall (besides location and indie vs industry), and specifically between their producer's programs. 


Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm depending on the hive mind.


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## beez (Mar 27, 2008)

i had to choose between ucla's pp and stark at usc, and ultimately i decided stark.  it wasn't easy, but for what i specifically want to do i felt stark would be the better fit.  ucla seems to be the more independently minded school, and while this is certainly where my personal interests lie, it is not where my professional interests do.  i feel like ucla's program gives its attendees more ammunition in the battle for hollywood territory, while stark in contrast hands you the deed to a plot of land.  you may ultimately be able to win more space in the long run with more weaponry, but it doesn't hurt to start off with a place of your own and to be in a brother/sisterhood with the city council.  ...this metaphor is getting annoying, but i think you get it...
based on the implication of your post i take it you're into both of those already?  which of the schools in the stark letter was a placeholder for your existence?  i'm not much of one for pre-in-person-meeting internet introductions, so i'll keep this short, but i wish you a happy 5 months until we perhaps become classmates.


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## beez (Mar 27, 2008)

oh, and as for nyu...
i was a bit turned off, because it seems like they're giving you an education in business AND film as opposed to the business OF film.  usc and ucla have internships and job placement over the summer as an integral part of their programs, while nyu puts you in class all summer long.  in an industry where it really is who you know as much as what you know, i don't see how this could possibly be beneficial.  ...but who knows.


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## Emily (Mar 27, 2008)

Thanks for your reply, beez! I recently found out that I got into NYU/Stern, so I am lucky enough to have the daunting task of choosing between all three programs. Like you, I would like to end up on the industry rather than the independent side of the business. I also have the same worry about the NYU combined mfa/mba - that they won't be organically connected, but rather haphazardly shoved together. 

Can I ask how long it usually takes for people to graduate the stark program? Other programs can apparently drag on for 5 years, but I thought it might be different for the producers.

Anyhoo, thanks again for the help!


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## dahinducow (Mar 27, 2008)

I've met people in the industry who've graduated from Stark.  They're all now successful writers in the business.  So if you go in having an X-Factor or skill set that sets you apart, I think that's the best place to go.


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## beez (Mar 27, 2008)

from what i've seen and heard from friends and former coworkers, stark is the most cohesive of the bunch--it's more of a  _program_ than a typical graduate school.  in that way, it's almost always a two year track, and i'm actually not even sure if you have the option to extend it.

dahinducow's comment is interesting: stark specifically looks for people whose primary interest is undoubtedly in producing.  that being said, many graduates do go on to become writers or directors or one of many other positions, but it certainly is a program meant for producers.

something else to note: many people in the industry have told me that there's no point in going to graduate school unless it's stark if you want to be a producer, and that if you have any in at all anywhere you should just become a producer's assistant.  now, keep in mind all of these people did not go to graduate school, so their opinion might be biased, and everyone i know at/from ucla has LOVED it, but it is interesting that those who didn't go to graduate school are for the most part completely against the idea, but they still offer the stark caveat.

hope this helps.


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## Jayimess (Mar 27, 2008)

> Originally posted by Emily:
> Can I ask how long it usually takes for people to graduate the stark program? Other programs can apparently drag on for 5 years, but I thought it might be different for the producers.



It's two years.  Period.  The program is extremely structured.  You can't deviate from the plan.


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## JRob3529 (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm new to the board, but I too was just admitted to the dual degree MBA/MFA at NYU.  It's the only program I applied to -- I didn't feel that a two year MFA in Producing was worth the money.  While neither the MBA nor the MFA are requisites in the industry, I certainly believe that the combination will carry with it tremendous weight as well as latitude.
At the end of the day, Producers don't need school.  But it can help.  Stark is the proven program, but I have a feeling NYU will become a powerhouse, especially as the program becomes increasingly refined over the coming years -- and to be a member of the vanguard class of 4-5 people will provide you with a lot of attention and support.
Most importantly, there's no right answer in any of this.  People get caught up in rankings, reputation, etc -- it's about which program will be the best fit for you and where will you get the most out of the experience.  Again, having friends at Stark, UCLA and NYU, I knew that NYU was the only choice for me.  
In the end, for me, I couldn't justify returning to school for just an MFA -- but the dual degree made perfect sense (and thus thrilled to be going).


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## poo radley (Mar 27, 2008)

I have had the experience of being advised against going back to school by producers in the industry. One said that if I were to go, the MBA is more useful than the MFA. However, I'm wary of the new program at NYU for a few reasons. It is completely untested, as well as an entire year longer than most producing programs (not to mention the lack of summers for internships). I would actually like to get my career started a bit sooner than this would allow. Then again, I also worry about the dubious value of an MFA in the producing world - it's an expensive degree to get if it means very little. That's why it's important to me to find out if, fabled stark connections and job placement-wise, USC's bite lives up to its bark.


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## dahinducow (Mar 27, 2008)

To clarify my last statement a bit...

For example, I met Melissa Rosenberg -- the writer of Step Up and a writer on Dexter.  She said she knew she wanted to be a writer but thought that a producing program would be a good place to get contacts in order for her to succeed as a writer.  She went to Stark (USC).

Apparently it worked.

So, I think producing school is EVEN better if you have another skill set that will set you apart after you graduate.  For example, John August was ALSO a writer.


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## JRob3529 (Mar 27, 2008)

> Originally posted by poo radley:
> I have had the experience of being advised against going back to school by producers in the industry. One said that if I were to go, the MBA is more useful than the MFA. However, I'm wary of the new program at NYU for a few reasons. It is completely untested, as well as an entire year longer than most producing programs (not to mention the lack of summers for internships). I would actually like to get my career started a bit sooner than this would allow. Then again, I also worry about the dubious value of an MFA in the producing world - it's an expensive degree to get if it means very little. That's why it's important to me to find out if, fabled stark connections and job placement-wise, USC's bite lives up to its bark.



For what it's worth, I say scratch UCLA (no offense to anyone here).  I have friends in their directing program right now who have asked me to come out from NY to produce their thesis films because they don't trust anyone in the producing program -- not a ringing endorsement.  Stark is a great program.  You're hooked up, and it's the gold standard.  No doubt in my mind that if you want a 2 year MFA, it's the way to go.
As for school vs. not, ask yourself what you're going for.  Would it be connections?  If so, are you the type of person who will make them on your own regardless of school?  If it's training, will you get that same training on set...etc, etc.
As for NYU, it is untested -- but at it's worst you've got the #1/#2 (depending who you ask) film school in the country and a top 10 business school.  Each degree independently would be incredibly valuable.  And as it's the first year, it's in NYU's best interest to see that you succeed because if you don't succeed, neither does the program.  At Stark, there will be far less of a vested interest in your success.  Finally, NYU's MBA provides both connections (number 3 school for finance...all those people who will be handling hedge funds for film financing) and alternatives.  By alternatives, I mean if you ever decide that you want to stop being a producer, your degree will provide far greater value.  I don't know your background, so I can't say if this point will stick -- but lots of producers bail out, and having an MBA is a great fall back.
On the plus side, you have all the options in front of you, which is a great place to be.  Best of luck to you in whatever path you decide, and congrats on the acceptances.


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## poo radley (Mar 31, 2008)

JRob - are you going to the Stern admitted students weekend? Do you know of any other combined program admits? 

Also - another thanks to everyone that chimed in on this thread . It's very helpful, although I am still deeply torn.


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## JRob3529 (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi (I feel funny saying "Hi Poo"),
  I will be attending the weekend (though I may be missing part of Saturday).  I do know one of the other admits -- she's absolutely wonderful and I can't wait to have her as a classmate.  If you want to pick her brain, shoot me a private message and I'll give you her email.
  Hope to see you there and, once again, congrats on all the admits!
    Jacob


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## psufilmgirl (Jun 27, 2008)

Hey guys who got into Stark:

What kind of experience did you have, and are there any recommendations you can make to some one who is applying for Fall 2009?

I'm 26, have a degree in communications film/video, did some PA work, some acting, and some internships in the Phila area where I'm from and I have about 5 years of management experience....I also have the "real life" experience which I think they like.  

Above all, which is why I'm flying out there for the interview, I have the passion for film, for producing, for this program, and to learn everything about the business of filmmaking that I possibly can.

Okay, just thought I'd seek advice from you people who have made it into the program.  

Thanks


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## chris_arcache (Jul 10, 2008)

Does any one knows the EXACT difference between a production and a producing program? They emphasize this a lot on usc's web site...

Stark is a producing one but frankly, except for the differences between that one the production program, I don't really see any minset difference...
any answer?


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## BrunoDP (Jul 21, 2008)

You have to ask yourself what do you want to do after graduation, and where do you see yourself 10 years from today... Film industry is very different then anything else. You don't need an MFA to be a producer (or anything else in this industry). So, why do we spend all this money to get it? Well, my motivation to enter this program (got into Chapman) was: to meet some industry insiders (faculty and their guests) from LA area, to meet very talented young filmmakers and writers from everywhere in the world, to get a higher degree - so if I fail as a producer, I can go and teach film at a college  level. In my opinion dual (MFA/MBA or MFA/JD - Chapman offers both) degree is the best option,  since film producing is a BUSINESS, not art. Film directing might be considered an art form (non-mainstream or indie cinema), but producing is a real business, and no degree will help you, unless you got a real talent for business, and all that b/s that comes along w/it. Again, it's all about you, and your own desire and willingness to give up a lot of things and fight for your own success in this tough industry. There are many avenues for producers. MFA is just a degree. Your personality, talent, and willingness to fight (work hard) is what counts. Trust me - I've been around... Peace!


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## Zumbi (Dec 13, 2008)

Hi all.

Very interesting post.
Help me to understand more about STARCK program.
BUT... As I'm applying for USC and UCLA Producing programs, I'd like to know what people have in mind about these two wonderful schools.
I still don't know what to do if I get into both.
What I want after is DIRECTING and CINEMATOGRAPHY with some screenwriting...


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## Jayimess (Dec 14, 2008)

Zumbi, 

Based on your previous posts, I believe you have applied to produc*tion* programs, not produc*ing* programs.  

The produc*tion* programs at USC, and most if not all schools. allows students to focus on one or more key creative aspects of film production, from screenwriter to editor and everything in between.  

The produc*ing* programs are business oriented, and how creative the programs are depend on the university chosen.  Peter Stark is the producing program at USC.  There is no deviation from their curriculum.


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## Zumbi (Dec 18, 2008)

Yeah.

I thought would be a forum about both PRODUCTION and PRODUCING.
Anyway, I'm going to PRODUCTION, as I said Directing/Cinematography/Screenwrtiting.


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## VeritasFilm (Jan 14, 2009)

I have been impressed by the level of knowledge and peer help on this forum, so I thought I'd take a stab at asking for some advice...

I have applied to the UCLA Producer's Program for Fall 2009.  It was the only program I applied to for a couple reasons that aren't so important.  Here's my question, followed by some background:

Should I spend 2 years getting a Producing MFA when I've been offered a job already working with an Oscar-winning writer/producer/director?

I'll be graduating from an Ivy school this June, although I did take time between high school and college to wrap up a moderately (operative word) successful acting career that started when I was a kid.  So, I'm a bit older than most of my fellow graduates, and have industry as well as life experience. This past summer I interned for a recent Academy Award winning screenwriter, who is also a producer and director, in his very small office of two people.  He has offered me a job as his assistant (with the potential to start generating co-producer credits) after I graduate in June, and has become a great mentor and friend.

Here is where I'm torn.  Is this the kind of job I would be vying for after getting the MFA?  If so, what is the point?  However, I'm really interested in teaching part-time at the college level at some point, and isn't a Master's degree crucial for that?  And, for those with experience with UCLA, what of the "industry position requirement" during the program?  He has agreed to keep me part-time to fulfill this, but how much would I realistically be able to work and would I have to put off producing opportunities with him while I'm in the program?  He, by the way, never finished high school but values education, so I get the "it's up to you" answer from him on this.  Also, I don't really have a "network" of people like this guy, so is the program the ticket to building the kind of network where I'd have 10 jobs like this to choose from in two years?

Please, any advice would be tremendously helpful as I ponder this over the next few months.

Thanks!


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## Jayimess (Jan 14, 2009)

I don't know too much about UCLA's producing program, so please keep that in mind.

You do not need a film degree to work in the industry.  A given.

If you have enough credits, you do not need a Master's to teach film school...you're an "expert," and the school is happy to have you share your wealth of knowledge!

Regarding whether or not you'll be going to school for a job you already have...

I was already a screenwriter when I got into USC.  Now I'm a better one.  But in addition to improving my craft, I've learned more about it, and been able to explore other aspects of the industry, to the point that I'm now enamored with media I never even considered before coming here, and I've discovered new skillsets as well.  Without this program, I would have limited myself only to the world of features.

I've also created a pretty large and still growing network.

You already have a job, but film school might just show you there are other jobs you not only are qualified for and/or really talented at, but that you might like better.    And you'll build a network.

There is no "ticket" to the film industry, so 10 jobs out of school isn't likely or guaranteed either way.

I really don't think you can go wrong no matter what you decide...

...but wait til you get in first!

;-)


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## wyeth1913 (Jan 14, 2009)

What about the AFI Producers program? How is it? Is it worth the money and time to get your MFA in producing (not production) from the AFI?


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## Jayimess (Jan 14, 2009)

It depends on what you want from it and what you put into it.  I've heard that the AFI program is not a creative producing program; it's a more of line producing program...administration.


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## Zumbi (Jan 14, 2009)

I agree with Jaymess.

I'm applying for UCLA and USC. Hope to get into USC to be honest.

I think you should go to the School. I'm choosing this path as well.
I had to do a different (but similar) decision one year ago. I'm the writer/co-director of a feature film that still just exists in a Screenplay I wrote. But instead of stay ijn my country trying to get into the industry to learn, I choosed to move from my country to another, and another... Still pursuiting a way to get into a Film School. And now I'm waiting for the answer of USC/UCLA to actually STARTto learn the necessary skills toe help me move from Design to Filmmaking. Skills that I will use my entire life...

Decisions like that are hard to take. I know that.

Jaymess always give us wise tips.
Like she said, you can't go wrong by choosing one or another. Just think about what you think is the best for you.


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## Suzako (Jan 15, 2009)

Not to be a downer, but getting into school is Not a guarantee by any means.  And you won't know if you're accepted until March or April.  So you have a sure thing vs a not sure thing . . . . And as far as I know, most jobs don't let you take months to decide whether to take it or not.


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## KatieDid (Jan 29, 2009)

For Jayimess - You seem so smug.  You're all too available to tell everyone how you got into every good program and only appear when you can toot your own horn.  By the way, how do you have so much time to hang out on this board?  From the looks of it, USC can't be all that challenging.  Shouldn't you be writing?  BTW, your "voice" is not all that vivid, nor is it compelling.  You sound like boasting undergrad beyotch.  NOT impressed by you.


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## ganz (Jan 29, 2009)

KatieDid,

That post was really offensive and unnecessary.  What do you gain by picking a fight with somebody who's only trying to help other people on this board?  Some things are better left unsaid.  I say this so that people may still respect your opinion, which honestly, is a doubtful proposition.

ganz


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## barbsteele (Jan 29, 2009)

Ignore the sad little troll. She hasn't posted anything on these forums other than criticisms of Jayimess. She's obviously just trying to start a fight... And clearly she's the one with too much time on her hands if she has time to troll =)


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## cabezon (Jan 29, 2009)

KatieDid,

J is a friend of mine. I took offense to that. Let's try to act like adults here ok? You're not setting a good first impression for yourself.

...Anyway, who here has applied as a producer to UCLA or Chapman?


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## Jayimess (Jan 29, 2009)

Wow, KatieDid.  Venomous you are.  Have I wronged you in "the real world?"  If so, chances are you know where to find me, don't you, rather than hide behind an internet handle?

Regarding the accusations:  I never intend to be smug or boastful, not do I seek to impress anyone on this site.  I only try to help where I can, and reassure.  Getting into film school shouldn't be so panic inducing...because trust me, it's a ton of hard work.  We writers just tend to do other things while figuring out story...and we're all procrastinators....

I always wondered how you spelled "beyotch."  Thanks for the help.

Katie, hope to see you around.


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## KatieDid (Jan 30, 2009)

No hating.  No flaming.  Just keenly observing lightly veiled character motivation.  

The real eye-roller was when when you ended a recent response with "Just get in, first!" (i.e. don't worry about the small details, worry about getting in, in the first place.) and then you topped it off with that sly little wink icon.  As if.  What will you so when your 2 years are up?  Is there a forum for that?  You are of singular dimension, and that one is transparent.


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## Jayimess (Jan 30, 2009)

Did you even read the post that "eye-roller" was in reply to, oh, Keenly Observant Katie?  Veritas was weighing the pros and cons of taking a sure thing job versus going to UCLA.

You amuse me, because the insults you sling are so off base and you seem so preoccupied with me for some reason...it was noted that you were driven to sign up on this site yesterday, seemingly just to accost me personally and publicly.

I encourage you to explore the site beyond my posts, no matter how you perceive them.  There's a wealth of info on this site that WILL help you through the admissions process, and I hope you can benefit from it, even if you find my words useless or offensive...and don't worry, these are the last I'll send your way.


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## KatieDid (Jan 30, 2009)

No thanks. Where would I begin with your 876 posts (in one year..) and counting?  I have a writing career to tend to. Just know that your Florence Nightingale approach has holes. Your entire sense of self-worth is tied up in hearing just how many people don't get in to schools. Otherwise you would tell the poor guy seeking interview questions what you experienced during yours (along with the glorious day you rec'd all of your yellow cards).  I'm finished here.  Was really only looking to see if a friend was accepted into NYU's program.  It would be great to have him join me.


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## sophiedog (Jan 30, 2009)

Glad to hear that was your last post, KatieDid. Now go and take your antipsychotic meds...


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## ganz (Jan 30, 2009)

seriously.  that was nasty and unnecessary.  even if your accusations were true katiedid, (and they're not), you can't possibly think that people will ever take you seriously or that you'll find people willing to help you on your way if this is the kind of feedback you give.  there's never a good reason to attack people in a context like this for the reasons you've given.  i hope time wears the edge off your self-involved projections.

ganz


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## DJ (Feb 6, 2009)

I am a current undergraduate junior in Philadelphia and have aspirations of going to NYU for the MFA/MBS dual degree program.  I am a business major, but my first love is film.  I was hoping for any advice in applying for and getting into NYU's new program, or any of these programs for that matter (NYU, USC, UCLA, CHAPMAN).  Do I need some work experience after I graduate before I apply?  Do I need to take any exams before I apply (GMAT)?  Which school is more selective and difficult to get into (for NYU only, Stern or Tisch)?  I have done an internship at BlackRock, but that would only help my application for Stern.  Also, what type of GPAs and extracurricular and leadership activities did anyone accepted have?  Thanks in advance.


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## Dr.RubyDoomsday (Feb 6, 2009)

DJ, I am currently applying to the MFA/MBA from NYU. I can say that if you are planning on going straight from Undergrad, you are going to have an uphill climb getting into Stern. 

They accept only about 14% of applicants and the median amount of work experience is 4 years. The low quartile is still about 3, the upper being closer to 6. You will have 0, so you would need to have had some serious internships and/or started a business while at undergrad to make up for that (not saying that it can't be done, you just are going to need to show them you have expereince working in the business world). The top 10 business schools have a median age of 27-28 for acceptances. That is the level of maturity and business savvy they look for, if you are younger, they are going to be concerned.

You will need the GMAT, but if you are a business UG, you will not have a problem being competative on that front.

Someone more qualified than me can attest to the possible issues with Tisch, maybe someone already in the dual program. 

If you are looking at applying in a few years, I would say you need to get involved in volunteer activities for Stern, show them you can do more than memorize excell shortkeys. If you are looking at applying your senior year, I would go to NYU over a weekend or something and see if you can meet with someone from adcom and talk about the problems. They will be straight with you if your profile would have a chance.


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## DJ (Feb 6, 2009)

Doc-I was worried about everything you said actually.  My internship is extremely serious (I'm currently working there now), at the biggest asset manager in the world.  However, 6 months is definitely not enough to get me into Stern.  I guess I'm going to have work for a few years after I graduate in order to make this dream come true.  I'm only worried about losing my film knowledge by working in the business world for a while.  Any insight on this?  Thanks.


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## Dr.RubyDoomsday (Feb 6, 2009)

Well, DJ, shocking confession time, before I applied to B-school I wanted to be a lawyer. I did pre-law in college, am working at a law firm now and was planning on doing entertainment law. Clearly, that plan changed. 

I cannot tell you what will get you in to Stern or Tisch, as I am waiting to hear back. But I would reccomend getting involved with the film kids at your school and helping out with their pieces (are you at Temple by any chance?). Create a network and work with them in your spare time as a producer or as anything. This could probably do double duty as it shows Tisch you have the motivation to learn about producing and it shows Stern you are more than just another finance kid.


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## DJ (Feb 6, 2009)

I am actually an undergraduate at Drexel studying business administration/legal studies, which is Drexel's equivalent to pre-law.  I started out as a film major, but before my sophomore year, changed my major to business.  I figured that a business degree would go a lot farther, and that I could still get into film school if I still wanted to pursue.  After studying business for a year and a half and doing a fairly presitigious internship, I realize that film is my passion and i definitely want to do something with it in the future.

I actually have quite a few friends still in Drexel's film program, and have helped them with scripts and editing on numerous occassions.  I'll definitely continue, and I'm actually working on a script of my own for a short.  I really appreciate your advice, and I wish you luck in getting into NYU.


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