# UCLA Round 2 Vs Chapman



## tony bowens (Jul 24, 2008)

So I made it as far as alternate status at UCLA but didn't get in.
I'm doing my best to prep for another round but I'm not sure what's best to try and change for a second shot.

That said. I've also been admitted to Chapman.
I checked the place out, incredible facilities, but the timeline for moving seems ridiculously impossible. Plus, well, Orange County, shoot me. 

So I'm looking at declining admission for this year and trying again at the priority deadline at Chapman and trying again at UCLA.

Does that seem insane?
Any advice for a how to improve an app a second round.


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## Winterreverie (Jul 25, 2008)

what's the orange county problem specifically? I haven't found the film school to live up to the empty headed OC reputation. If I know specifics, I'll let you know if it's really something you'll encounter here.

I loved the campus at UCLA. (When I applied I applied to the same two schools and got in to Chapman, waitlisted at UCLA and chose to be taken off the waitlist) But the surrounding area is ridiculously expensive and, sadly, just as plastic as OC is said to be.

I had a friend-- He's somewhere on the forums. Made it to UCLA's waitlist the first year, did there extension program for a year (Same classes, more money, no degree) and didn't even make it to the waitlist the next year. 2 years wasted.

And as for moving insanity. We don't start for a few weeks... I knew someone who moved here from Canada on (literally) two days notice and he's functioning fine.


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## dahinducow (Jul 25, 2008)

I am said friend, hehe.

Now, we've talked a bit about this online but here's the short version for others:

I thought I could "figure them out" and "make my application better" but you can't.  So, when I changed my application for my second time at it, it apparently only hurt my chances.

Sure, you can wait and apply again, and sounds like that's what you want to do, but if I were you I wouldn't change my application much.  Because that's not going to affect it.  

You could cut off your leg (to borrow from 21), and get adopted by someone from another country, and maybe that'll help.


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## Winterreverie (Jul 25, 2008)

Yeah, truth I think they were more excited when they heard my ethnicity than saw it. LOL

Actually their biggest concern and literally the reason I was waitlisted according to the faculty I spoke with, was that they were afraid I could not afford to be there 5 years. 5 years, it isn't a 5 year program! Yes. Yes it is. teehee. Come be a Chappie Dahindu...we'll get liquored up and make movies. No. Not those kind!


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## tony bowens (Jul 25, 2008)

AJ, we already talked about this so hush. 

I'm going to guess your friend who moved from Canada had more than a couple hundred dollars to his name and no health care concerns.
I find that most people that advocate jumping blindly into situations and "Sorting it out" later tend to have deep enough pockets that they aren't actually taking a risk.
Not the case for me at all. My financial resources are low and my day to day needs are high.
Trust me, it's annoying, but there is no getting around it. 

I've gotten a lot of a "oh just do this or that" response and I can't say I quite parse the advice.
If I had the financial resources to cover my living costs while interning or volunteer to work on a set I wouldn't need the cushion school provides. 
I'm pretty mystified why those who do have those resources are so hellbent on getting into school and don't just go learn first hand.
It's never had anything to do with getting a notch on my resume with me, but had everything to do having the room to learn and make a career transition without having to magic up rent money. 

As for my problem with orange county, if the idea of living in the suburbs doesn't seem off putting to you even as a general concept I doubt it's something easily explainable. 
The area I saw around Chapman didn't seem to contain much of anything at all, just endless strip malls. I'd prefer at least some semblance of culture and nightlife in my existence before I hit my 30s. 

I have no doubts about the quality of the education I'd receive or the commitment of the other students, but I've had to be honest with myself and weigh that versus all the aspect of the experience that would be at play and Chapman has done little to be supportive.
As an admit I haven't gotten any more than I would as a prospective student which is a tour, and a DVD reel.
Doesn't exactly fill me with hope about how things would go otherwise. 

That said I wouldn't rule out Chapman in a second round but since they have nothing akin to admit weekend and couldn't give me any information on who the people I'd be spending a great deal of the next 3 years with were it would take some real thinking and planning on my part to accept that uncertainty as a side effect of continuing my education. 

As for UCLA. I took extensive notes on my personal missteps in the process, of which there were more than a couple. I lack the ego it takes to look at how things went and not be certain I could improve them. Honestly I can't imagine packing up and moving and then hanging about as actually having any effect on increasing your chances on admission. If anything, especially with UCLA, I'd guess it would leave them thinking "well if you've got all that what do we have to teach you?"

Those are my thoughts on the matter anyway.


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## Ard23 (Jul 27, 2008)

Tony--

Which program at UCLA did you apply to? I applied to the directing MFA, didn't even get an interview, applied a couple of years later and got in, and I currently attend. I didn't consciously manipulate my app the second time to what I thought they wanted, however in those two years I had experienced a lot of personal growth, which fundamentally altered my creative taste and the degree of drive and ambition I had towards pursuing directing.

This is not to suggest you don't have that drive and artistic maturity right now. Frankly its kind of a crap shoot, especially at UCLA where they ask for so few application materials. My advice would be to reapply and (if we're talking the directing program here) change your film pitch and work more on your biographical essay. Its not about changing who you are, but about bringing out in writing the most interesting/attractive version of who you are.

I do also take issue with the idea that film school is merely a financial shelter to reside in while you make films. Its a common fallacy that if you want to direct you should "just do it." Also, interning on film sets might teach the technical craft of many jobs (grip/electric, camera dept, etc.) but unless you are directly shadowing a director or DP (hard to pull that, btw) you're really not going to be learning much about that end of the process.

If you've got specific UCLA questions feel free to ask. And if you're talking about a program other than the directing track, some of what I've said above obviously won't be relevant to you.


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## Ard23 (Jul 27, 2008)

PS UCLA is only a five year program for those that want it to be. I finished all of my coursework (w/ the exception of the thesis film) in 3 years.


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## tony bowens (Jul 27, 2008)

Hi Ard23,

I'd applied to the Cinematography program and that's what I'll be applying to again this year.
I"d love to hear more about what you think changed about yourself and your personal statement in those two years.
I worry a great deal that my life, for a lot of reasons hasn't changed a ton.
I've been working on the creative side of things a little bit but haven't been able to do anything like make another short.
Did you gain more production experience or just feel more mature and focused?
Outside of that I made a lot of solid point in my old personal statement but I'm not sure how much one should repeat myself.  

I've been working on flushing out an idea for a short a that's a bit less focused on me. 
The hardest part for is the writing, I'm a very visual person, thus the applying for Cinematography, and putting my ideas into words is a frustrating process. I wish I could just show people the visual thoughts in my heads. 

Also invested in an Netflix account so I spend tons of time just watching movies in a way I hadn't in a while.

I do want to be very hands on personally so things like an internship just to learn the how to portion of things wouldn't be a bad thing for me, but it's just not a feasible option right now. 
I'm always brimming with ideas but technically how to express them is what typically stumps me.

A five year program sounds great to me personally. I don't want to just bounce in, get a degree and move. I need room to resettle for sure.

Any info you've got on UCLA would be appreciated. specfically about how the Cinematogrpahy students fit in with everyone else. If you know any current cinematography students on the forum that would like to chat that would be awesome.


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## tony bowens (Jul 27, 2008)

oh here is one thing.

Should the personal statment for reapplying assume the readers are aware of my older statement?

Do you think it's possible to gain admission w/o a professor rec?


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## Ard23 (Jul 28, 2008)

My actual resume between the first and second time I applied was not much different, and honestly was pretty thin in the way of professional experience. UCLA really doesn't stress that. Their focus is personal storytelling more than technical craft. Their philosophy is that they can teach you all of the craft, but what are bringing to the table that will allow you produce unique and compelling stories?  I feel like what really changed more than anything for me was my degree of maturity and focus. Personally it was a blessing I didn't get in the first time, because I wasn't ready.

I'm actually surprised that you need to turn in a film idea for the cinematography track. If you're a visual person, tell a story that could ONLY be told visually, and stress that aspect. If you're concerned about your writing ability, get someone to help you polish the stylistic elements once you have your idea down.

There are 3 DP students per year, and in the first year they are completely integrated with the directing program; there's no distinction. We all take the same classes, have to direct and DP two shorts, and are expected to write our own scripts. Once second year rolls around, the cinematography track branches off, and you're mostly taking cinematography classes and focusing on shooting the director's second year films (or films outside of school, those can count towards your degree). Since both tracks spend the whole first year together, we get to know each other very well and you can get a sense of who it is you want to work with.

Definitely write the personal statement as if the reader is not aware of your old statement. Don't even mention that you are reapplying. Focus it on what you want to do and why, your inspiration, personal info, etc. I wouldn't focus too much on professional experience, what they want more than anything are unique points of view and unique voices. Also, I think a prof recommendation would be helpful (all of my recs were from profs actually) but if you have strong recs from employers/ mentors that should be just as good (perhaps better for a DP student). I don't know any DPs on this forum, but i'm pretty familiar with the program so let me know if you've got other questions.

One more thing: If you are serious about being in the film industry, I would strongly recommend moving to LA when you can. If you are here before reapplying to film school that can only help you. You can even get involved on UCLA (or other schools') shoots and meet people that way (plenty of shoots are on the weekends assuming you need to hold down a weekday job).


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## tony bowens (Jul 28, 2008)

Sadly moving to LA w/o a standing job or education offer is probably pretty unrealistic at this point in time.

Your advice on the personal statement is much appreciated. I've certainly got plenty to say in terms of having a unique point of view. Though it's not perhaps a very "sellable" point of view. I just need to find a good way to package sarcasm as a good thing.  I think I just need to push further and not hold myself back even if it's not the "nice" thing to do.

Something purely visual is an interesting idea.
I see things like that in my mind but they prompt you for something you want to make and I tended to try and follow a more standard model for how to pitch a movie.
Do you think they would take to a pitch that was simply visually descriptive.


I'll have a million questions as I set into this again I'm sure so I really appreciate your responsiveness.


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## Ard23 (Jul 29, 2008)

Re: the film pitch: I'm not arguing for you to depart from the standard form of pitch so much as to come up with an idea that is heavily reliant on visuals (ie someone could read it and think "this could only be a movie"). I still think it ought to have a clear story w/ defined characters, but the more you can fit those images in your head into a "cinematic" type of film idea, the better.

UCLA is not about "sellable" so I wouldn't worry too much about that. They are very conscious however about how their applicants will work and interact w/ the rest of the class, so keep that in mind as you present yourself (ie suppress any major anitsocial tendencies. I've got plenty, and I managed to fool them).


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## tony bowens (Jul 29, 2008)

Foxwithcpu,
I'd actually love to hear a counter argument pointing out the highlights of the area.  As with anyone all I've got to go on are what people I know tell me, and my own brief experiences with the Campus. For the most part when I ask people that live there currently or have lived there and ask them if it seems like a good fit for me they mostly just get a funny look on their face and say no.
I should probably also qualify my value statements a bit better with some details about myself and what I'd consider culture, which is really just my blatantly biased opinion of what goes into a good time on a free night. ? Whenever I look at a place I never try and decide whether it's good or bad for everyone, but just me personally.  Stanford is a good model for that. If you have a passion for computer science, or horseback riding, or cutting up mice so you can get your next grant, or just really love laying in the sun wearing flip-flops then you'd probably be happy as a clam there. Many are and more power to the rich bastards. Me however, not so much about those things. 

As for me, in a tiny checkbox marking nutshell way I'm a gay black guy infused with the power of nerd that's bounced between growing up taking acting lessons in LA, to being shunted off to Ohio but went to an arts focused school where I grew used to having a more artistic energy in my life, to Stanford which”¦ isn't art school. I'm as happy staying in playing video games or going to the comic shop as I am at an art opening as I am banging my head around at some industrial night. However I didn't catch any of that stuff during my visit but maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places.

If you know any good arcades near Chapman though please let me know. ? 

[ Yes I freely admit that it's retarded, and seemingly totally irrelevant to my educational goals,  but that the area around UCLA had two still functioning arcades near it made me a little warm and fuzzy inside. ]


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## Jayimess (Jul 29, 2008)

I'd like to hear more about Orange County too.  Time and time again I hear it's suburbia, with only rich white people, blah blah, "The OC" and "Real Housewives" were spot on, etc, etc, etc, yadda yadda.

That's all I've heard so far.  I'm not saying this to be provocative, but because I want to know what's actually true.


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## ganz (Jul 30, 2008)

Orange County _is_ mostly suburbs and many of the stereotypes about it are true.  I speak as an 18 year resident.

But there are also several communities designed for the younger crowd.  For instance, Chapman is right next to Old Town Orange which has multiple bars, restaurants, and a downtown feel.  It bleeds hipster.

Probably more prominent are the Santa Ana and Fullerton downtown areas which have a ton of bars, clubs, and dives, essentially accomodating all the escapism teen angst can dream up.  They used to have an old arcade called the Reagan Years in Fullerton by the train station, but I believe its closed now. 

There are also a few art galleries in Santa Ana and one fairly new but increasingly significant gallery in Fullerton.  There are probably more that I don't know about.

If that's not enough for you, drive fifteen minutes and you're in Newport Beach which can "club" your neon-lit heart to death, a pretty decent beach town scene, and all the blonde beauty plastic surgery can buy.  

Still not happy?  Drive thirty minutes to Long Beach, (don't worry somebody will have a car), and scope out a town with a little of the beach, bars, clubs, downtown, uptown, run down, and city sound.  Plus, Long Beach has the state's largest gay community, (take that San Francisco!).  

Or drive thirty minutes to Huntington Beach and enjoy Main Street's beach appeal.  Again, bars and clubs abound.

Or just suck it up and drive the forty-five minutes to L.A. proper, or an hour to Hollywood, and soak up all its wonders and highlights, without some of its significant lowlights.  (I'm speaking about crime against residences, etc.)

I'll be honest with you friend:  Orange County ain't L.A.  But it ain't Ohio either.  I think if you did a little real research you'd find plenty of things to do.  I will also admit that you would most likely fit better into L.A.'s culture than Orange County's, but you can certainly find people who like to do the things you do.

Anyway, let me know if I can give you more info.

ganz


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## Jayimess (Jul 30, 2008)

See how much you can learn if you just ask?

Thanks, ganz...you excited for school to start?  Perhaps I'll see you around.  PM me if you're a facebook geek!


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## BrunoDP (Jul 30, 2008)

Orange County? City of Orange? Well, Tom Mankiewicz, Chapman film prof. and Hollywood legend, calls it Beaverville - a place where people "vote Republican, but in the basements they play their kinky games w/black leather and a whipp. It is sort of conservative south Cal suburbia. But, still, minorities are everywhere...  I just don't see why would anyone be concerned w/OC, if your primary reason for coming here is to join a film program. You'll be so busy w/studies (if you're serious about it) that it really doesn't matter if you're in Beaverville, or in the middle of Hollywood blvd. You're coming to acomplish something - to complete your higher education, and who cares are there enough bars, clubs, or S&M studios (what is that?)... And by the way, I wasn't impressed w/Hollywood scene at all. Berlin, Amsterdam, Madrid, and Moscow are far more advanced, but I don't care... I'm in Beaverville, CA, (for another year) and I met some great friends here (at Chapman)... What do I know - I'm just a producer. Peace!


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## tony bowens (Jul 30, 2008)

Ganz,
Thanks for the info. As I mentioned before I wasn't there very long, and after years of "researching" interesting things around here and not finding them I'm fairly skeptical about the idea of "hidden surprises" in a place. And I've been through the "Our school is totally less than an hour away from a major city, you can go whenever" spiel before. I know better. 

The discount breast enhancement surgery billboard I passed on the way down was priceless though. I don't think anyone could contest that as anything other than an "only in the OC" moment. 

I must have missed something about Olde Town Orange in the few hours I spent in it. I went around "the circle" I think it's called and just saw a few shops and places to eat, lots of auto repair, and a lot of closed up buildings. Is there some other place I should have been looking?

I'll skip the beaches and blondes.
Neither are for me. 

Long Beach wasn't too bad.
It's certainly eclectic.

Funnily, Columbus, OH isn't as bad as people would imagine. I miss certain aspects of it.


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## tony bowens (Jul 30, 2008)

BrunoDP,

Hmm, You know I don't get invited to nearly as many basement leather and whip parties as I'd like so maybe I am missing out. 

Having lived everywhere from a marginally reformed meth lab commune and the former murder capital of the US, to the most expensive part of London and a dorm with a personal chef, I have to say I can't personally agree with the "location doesn't matter" ethos. 

The same with "minorities are everywhere."
"race" is just a social construct and non-white people can be just as boring and suburban as white people. Sometimes moreso in my personal experience because they try harder to actively buy into the ideals. But that's a discussion for another time.  

As for me, as much as I have tried to make it otherwise it seems I'm all to human, with wants and needs to balance out my life that extend beyond studying all day to help keep me sane. 

I'll leave deciding how you see my acknowledgement of that as a comment on how serious I'd take my studies to you.

For the record I'm not in love with Hollywood either, just curious what my life in the OC would be like. I'm pretty sure my love affair with celebrity wore off about the time when I was 11 and watching Drew Carey eat a hot dog alone at the Beverly Center.

Amsterdam I found a bit sleepy personally.
Berlin I've heard great great things about.
Personally I'd give my left arm to live in London again, but the value of the dollar and those pesky EU labour laws seem to get in the way, unless the flabby black left arm market takes off. 

This has ceratainly all been very informative.
Thanks everyone for responding.


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## redpokiepenguin (Jul 31, 2008)

I just wanna say, yes I had qualms about going to Chapman because of the OC. But regardless of the plastic-ness, and the shallowness that people "talk" about I'm sure that every place has it's own charm. New York can be pretty blase and Hawaii ain't great all the time either. I like to operate on philosophy of "live as many places as I can and experience as many cultures as possible." (Blondes and breast enhancements included) So I'm looking forward to living in the OC. It really is just a state of mind I think. At the very least you can say you did it eh?


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## Winterreverie (Jul 31, 2008)

"...is neither blonde nor Breast enhanced...neither are any of her friends...maybe she is out of place?"

I've found Orange very different from the "OC," a decently high population of filipinos, hispanics, homosexuals, the list can go on, none particularly clawing to be a part of white america. Decent amount of hobby shops. Game stop. Can't recall them all. Can't think of arcades but then-- I was never an arcade type. Choose to do my gaming at home.

Also, not mentioned is everything 15-20 minutes East-- you can hit my old tromping ground of the slums of downtown Pomona. I'm sure the S&M parlors and prostitutes are there like ants on Candy. =P 

They have a cute little artist colony known for art walks every 2nd Saturday with gallery showing and musicians galore, occasional obscure theatre pieces. The starving artist types.

I lived on a Hippie farm down that way. It's a little cultural mecca-- with people choosing to cling to their roots rather than conform to American suburbia.

But this is a moot point. If you have a prejudice about an area, no amount of argument from others will change your mind. the only thing that will really make a difference is choosing to be open to experience it for yourself. Change you own opinion.

I definitely recommend waiting to reapply to UCLA. It sounds like that is where you want to be, and regardless of what the OC does and does not offer, you won't be happy here.


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## barbsteele (Aug 14, 2008)

I can't speak from personal experience, just what I've heard from friends at USC and what I observed when out in L.A. for a visit earlier in the summer... but most film students seem to work so hard, there's not a whole lot of time for partying anyway! Meeting up at diners at 1 am for a very late dinner seemed to be the status quo. Of course that could just be my friend and his L.A. friends (he and I DID spend most of our college years hanging out at the local diner til all hours )


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## Jayimess (Aug 15, 2008)

The fun and frolic vary depending on workload...I had more time my first semester than many of my classmates, but second semester, I was completely scheduled every minute of every day due to my class schedule and their various deadlines.  I don't think I went out a single time, and I never saw my roommate.  Most weekends I never left bedroom and my laptop.

Either way, grad school, especially film school, is not the time to party it up.


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## MrCashyCash (Aug 15, 2008)

Wait & re-apply to UCLA.

That gives you time to figure out your financial situation. Also, if they reject you again, you'll feel confident that you did your best to get in (twice).

Oh, get used to fake people and jerks ASAP.


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## tony bowens (Aug 15, 2008)

It's rather ridiculous how fast this year has blown by. I feel like the dust has barely settled on my last round of apps, probably because it has,  and here I am again prepping for my next round. I don't worry so much about fake people and *******s. They sprout like weeds and the only thing I envy them is their ability to BS their way through situations. I'm cursed with an unerring honesty about myself and my current abilities that's probably done me in more than a few times. I'd like to think in the long run it's positive to always be open and speak plainly but I have the sneaking suspicion its probably not. 

It's probably TMI (there is that horrible honesty thing again) but at it's core my line of questioning has everything to do with myself and nothing to do with the school at hand.
Logistically I decided against Chapman for other reasons. The timeline for me was just not something I could make work. Whether I want to be or not I have to be a surefooted goat and can't just jump into situations and hope to sort the rest out later, so even if another chance at film school never arises I'm okay with my decision.

I think in the end my questions stem from a concern that I'll arrive and not find a comfortable place for myself in this tight knit group you get tossed into with this type of thing. I don't take it on faith that I'll arrive and love everyone or assume they'll love me. That level of optimism has done little else than bite me in the ass over the years so I'd feel pretty foolish trying to manifest it now. I work to be clear minded, highly competent, and dependable, but I won't ever be a giant bag of fun and hugs. Some people can take that the wrong way and take it personally before they get to know me. 

So all things failing I'd prefer to have a simple way to step away from school. Even if it's in the wee hours of the morning after I've been shooting for 14 hours. 2am omlettes at diners sounds as good an option as any. 

I'm not worried "where's the party?".
I'm worried that at the end of the day it's gonna be me trapped in a room with a bunch of people i want to strangle becuase they've broken into their second chorus of kumbaya  with not so much as a comic shop i can sneak off to for minute. 

Ah well.
I've got a personal statement to get to writing.


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## hoohaProductions (Aug 16, 2008)

I'm applying to both UCLA and Chapman. Is it correct that you can't apply for the UCLA film school until your Junior year? That scares me a little. Anyone have any thoughts on how much that should weight into one's decision?


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## Theresa Miller (Mar 28, 2009)

> Originally posted by BrunoDP:
> Orange County? City of Orange? Well, Tom Mankiewicz, Chapman film prof. and Hollywood legend, calls it Beaverville - a place where people "vote Republican, but in the basements they play their kinky games w/black leather and a whipp. It is sort of conservative south Cal suburbia. But, still, minorities are everywhere...  I just don't see why would anyone be concerned w/OC, if your primary reason for coming here is to join a film program. You'll be so busy w/studies (if you're serious about it) that it really doesn't matter if you're in Beaverville, or in the middle of Hollywood blvd. You're coming to acomplish something - to complete your higher education, and who cares are there enough bars, clubs, or S&M studios (what is that?)... And by the way, I wasn't impressed w/Hollywood scene at all. Berlin, Amsterdam, Madrid, and Moscow are far more advanced, but I don't care... I'm in Beaverville, CA, (for another year) and I met some great friends here (at Chapman)... What do I know - I'm just a producer. Peace!


 Thanks, I needed that. I was worried about the lack of diversity. But I'm just going to get my sh*t done, try to have as much fun as possible while doing it, and go on my way


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