# Seeking advice. Law school to film school?



## RoseOfAberlone (Mar 27, 2021)

First time post - sorry if I'm violating any sort of etiquette here.

I'm currently a law student at a decently high-ranked school, not in LA or NYC. I'm realizing that I think my major motivation for going to law school was to feel properly "educated" after an unimpressive undergrad experience and, frankly, to get out of the type of work I was doing before.

Since day one of law school I've been saying that I want to go in-house at a major production company, for reasons that ultimately boil down to proximity to filmmaking. I have absolutely no experience in filmmaking; I've just been a massive fan for as long as I can remember. They've just always played a pretty big role in my life. I was lucky enough to speak to a former entertainment lawyer, who now works at a film school, to talk through career options and goals. I know very little about the structure of the industry, so I described what my dream job would be in terms of vague ideas and job responsibilities. He said that what I had described is the role of a producer or production executive.

I essentially told them that I don't need to be a screenwriter, director, cinematographer, or whatever. I just want to be the person that gets films made. I want to take on a project, get it done, and help make that project successful. I think I'd like some creative input, but not at the level of other positions that amount to real artists.

They suggested I look up a particular MFA in producing. I watched a promo video and, without getting excessively corny, literally shed a tear because I had no idea that real people could just _become _a producer. I've been spiraling down every rabbithole I can find on the internet learning everything I can about producers, which I've since realized is the most ambiguous position title I've ever encountered, and I'm certainly interested. To clarify: I would absolutely finish law school first. I made it this far.

My questions and why I'm posting any of this:

How do you _know _if you want to be a producer? How can I, a law student with heavy time constraints, figure out if the role is right for me? How necessary is a creative background to getting into producing? I'd like to think I'm creative (don't we all), but I've never had any real creative education or any creative outlet to show for it. For those of you that applied, attended, or are looking to apply, why? How did you know it was right for you? Is there something I can do, given my circumstances, to really get my feet wet and decide if this is right for me?

I'm essentially having that moment in my career where I'm realizing I should do what I love. I just want to be sure that this is, in fact, it, and that I'm not just throwing caution to the wind simply because I love movies.

Advice or input of literally any kind is welcome and very much appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## KDonthescene (Mar 27, 2021)

RoseOfAberlone said:


> First time post - sorry if I'm violating any sort of etiquette here.
> 
> I'm currently a law student at a decently high-ranked school, not in LA or NYC. I'm realizing that I think my major motivation for going to law school was to feel properly "educated" after an unimpressive undergrad experience and, frankly, to get out of the type of work I was doing before.
> 
> ...


Hi. I am a screenwriter. I say link up with some indie filmmakers near you and ask how you can be involved in any way possible. This is experience you could then list on film school applications. Since you have a law degree, have you considered becoming a film agent or manager? Supporting talent may be just as rewarding and could open the door for other opportunities. Many execs get their start interning at agencies such as WME. Hope this helps!


----------



## RoseOfAberlone (Mar 27, 2021)

KDonthescene said:


> Hi. I am a screenwriter. I say link up with some indie filmmakers near you and ask how you can be involved in any way possible. This is experience you could then list on film school applications. Since you have a law degree, have you considered becoming a film agent or manager? Supporting talent may be just as rewarding and could open the door for other opportunities. Many execs get their start interning at agencies such as WME. Hope this helps!


Thank you! I thought that was probably a good entry point. Possibly a stupid question, but any tips on finding indie filmmakers who may need the help? I'd imagine this is easier in a film hub, but I'm not in one at the moment. Would trying to work with undergrad film students be a viable substitute? I'm sure some are geniuses but not sure how I'd fit into their projects.

Re: agent/manager: idk that I can offer a fully-baked opinion on this, given my lack of experience, but I think I'm more interested in being involved in the development of a film/project, rather than in development of an individual(s), if that makes sense. Though, I'm certainly not opposed to the experience! I've heard many get their start here and that it can be very rewarding/valuable regardless of the end goal.


----------



## KDonthescene (Mar 27, 2021)

RoseOfAberlone said:


> Thank you! I thought that was probably a good entry point. Possibly a stupid question, but any tips on finding indie filmmakers who may need the help? I'd imagine this is easier in a film hub, but I'm not in one at the moment. Would trying to work with undergrad film students be a viable substitute? I'm sure some are geniuses but not sure how I'd fit into their projects.
> 
> Re: agent/manager: idk that I can offer a fully-baked opinion on this, given my lack of experience, but I think I'm more interested in being involved in the development of a film/project, rather than in development of an individual(s), if that makes sense. Though, I'm certainly not opposed to the experience! I've heard many get their start here and that it can be very rewarding/valuable regardless of the end goal.


I joined some film groups on Meetup. Other than that not really sure. Regarding agenting, a top film exec said in an online article that some agents just try to steal each other’s clients, so not sure if you’d be willing to be in a space like that just to move up...However, being a manager is much different I heard, though in any case you could make some great connections. Anyway, I will allow those who actually know more about producing to chime in!


----------



## Chris W (Mar 27, 2021)

@Julie Lew might be able to help you with producing questions.


----------



## llueve (Apr 6, 2021)

Hi RoseOfAberlone,
Welcome! And also, congratulations, how cool to find what you're really interested in and that it's a real job.

I'm an assistant editor in narrative TV and film currently figuring out where I will go for Screenwriting. I first found film work in NYC. 
(Narrative = scripted, in contrast with documentary and reality programs)



RoseOfAberlone said:


> any tips on finding indie filmmakers who may need the help?


Believe it or not, you can use Linked In for this. A lot of film industry people don't have linked in, myself included, but at the same time, a lot *do*. Since you know you are interested in freelance producing and creative studio executive / development work, I would try to have coffee dates / Zoom dates with people with those jobs -- perhaps in addition to indie filmmakers. In those informational meetings, you could ask people how they got to where they are now and if they can think of any ways to use a law degree as an advantage when breaking in.

Look up people with your dream job, or with jobs that are a step towards your dream job, and cold-email them. Send many emails. Lots of people won't reply, but some will! Set up Zoom or coffee meetings with them, 30 minutes to 1 hour (go longer if you both want to). At the end of the meeting, ask them if there's anyone else they think you should meet, and hopefully they will introduce you to other people. This is one way to build a network. One of my asst. ed. colleagues did exactly this to break in; I did a similar version of this. It's a real, actionable path.

Other websites people use are: Mandy.com, Facebook Groups (generally broken up by location and sometimes demographic, like Women Filmmakers NYC or Black Filmmakers LA, etc), Craigslist (use caution, as always).

As far as your law school time constraints vs. being able to get on set and make sure that you understand and actually like film, I hear you. I've know many a law student, you guys don't get any breaks! I don't want to do that annoying forum thing where repliers directly contradict a foundational piece of info in the OP, but--do you _have to_ finish law school? Sunken cost fallacy? Spending time on a degree you don't want that may not help you career aspirations, having to then start from scratch again, possibly incur additional debt for a film degree; could you go on leave from your program for a year to figure stuff out -- these are the things that jump to my mind. You, of course, know your life and self best. You don't have to justify yourself to strangers on the internet! Just know that from the outside looking in, I don't think it's necessary for you to finish your degree before you pivot. There are cases where finishing makes most sense, and cases where it doesn't.

Speaking of law school, did you line up a summer internship at a firm or company that is film-related? That could be helpful. 

If you have any questions about the various jobs on set or anything else film-related, keep asking!

Hope more folks will chime in with other ideas and options for you.


----------



## Chris W (Apr 6, 2021)

llueve said:


> Look up people with your dream job, or with jobs that are a step towards your dream job, and cold-email them. Send many emails. Lots of people won't reply, but some will! Set up Zoom or coffee meetings with them, 30 minutes to 1 hour (go longer if you both want to). At the end of the meeting, ask them if there's anyone else they think you should meet, and hopefully they will introduce you to other people. This is one way to build a network. One of my asst. ed. colleagues did exactly this to break in; I did a similar version of this. It's a real, actionable path.



This is a ballsy awesome thing to do.  Great idea! Some will respond. 




llueve said:


> I don't want to do that annoying forum thing where repliers directly contradict a foundational piece of info in the OP, but--do you _have to_ finish law school? Sunken cost fallacy?


Def finish law school. A law degree could def come in handy IMO.


----------



## RoseOfAberlone (Apr 6, 2021)

llueve said:


> Hi RoseOfAberlone,
> Welcome! And also, congratulations, how cool to find what you're really interested in and that it's a real job.


Thanks! I really, really appreciate the thoughtful response here!



> Believe it or not, you can use Linked In for this. A lot of film industry people don't have linked in, myself included, but at the same time, a lot *do*. Since you know you are interested in freelance producing and creative studio executive / development work, I would try to have coffee dates / Zoom dates with people with those jobs -- perhaps in addition to indie filmmakers. In those informational meetings, you could ask people how they got to where they are now and if they can think of any ways to use a law degree as an advantage when breaking in.
> 
> Look up people with your dream job, or with jobs that are a step towards your dream job, and cold-email them. Send many emails. Lots of people won't reply, but some will! Set up Zoom or coffee meetings with them, 30 minutes to 1 hour (go longer if you both want to). At the end of the meeting, ask them if there's anyone else they think you should meet, and hopefully they will introduce you to other people. This is one way to build a network. One of my asst. ed. colleagues did exactly this to break in; I did a similar version of this. It's a real, actionable path.


Sage advice. I think because some of these positions are so ambiguous, and because some people may even have the same (or similar) title and do completely different things, this has been a bit challenging. I'm totally fine with cold-emailing people though. I'm also realizing that I have a lot to learn about the general landscape. It was suggested to me that I'm interested in roles that are either a "producer" or a "production executive," and I think I'm having some trouble visualizing exactly who those people are, where they work, what they do, etc.



> I don't want to do that annoying forum thing where repliers directly contradict a foundational piece of info in the OP, but--do you _have to_ finish law school?


Definitely not annoying. Totally reasonable question with no simple answer. At the most basic level, I think having it as a fallback gives me a bit more cushion in case things don't work out. There's debt attached to it, which complicates things, but I think it's a net positive. Less superficially, though, I think the experience has been amazing personally and professionally. Even if it ends up being a useless paper and line on my resume, I think many of the skills are transferrable, even if indirectly, and it's whipped me into shape in ways I definitely needed.



> Speaking of law school, did you line up a summer internship at a firm or company that is film-related? That could be helpful.


Nope. Applied all over and got nothing. I hear you though.


----------



## llueve (Apr 7, 2021)

RoseOfAberlone said:


> Thanks! I really, really appreciate the thoughtful response here!
> 
> 
> Sage advice. I think because some of these positions are so ambiguous, and because some people may even have the same (or similar) title and do completely different things, this has been a bit challenging. I'm totally fine with cold-emailing people though. I'm also realizing that I have a lot to learn about the general landscape. It was suggested to me that I'm interested in roles that are either a "producer" or a "production executive," and I think I'm having some trouble visualizing exactly who those people are, where they work, what they do, etc.
> ...


The Covid landscape must be making summer internships *especially* difficult to land right now, even with vaccinations rising. Ugh, sorry to hear it. On the upside...you have the summer off to go frolic with the film kids, maybe?

Let me know if this is too basic, but I think: 

"Producer" means you work as a freelancer / self-employed. It may help to know that it's very common for each movie and TV show to have their very own LLC set up, which then dissolves after the movie or TV show is done being filmed and edited. Even if a big studio is in some way behind a project -- Netflix; Disney -- these Producers are not permanent employees of Netflix or Disney. They work, in a way, for that studio (usually paid via the LLC) for the duration of the project, and then move on to the next project, which may be for a different studio or the same studio.
-- Some people work alone. Some have producing partners and work in pairs. Some form small production companies. 
-- There are Producers who are involved only in the planning (aka: pre-production) to form budgets and line up resources, but go away when filming starts. Others are involved during the filming itself (aka: production). Others are involved during the editing process (aka: post production). Some are involved even earlier, during the script development, giving notes on the script to make the story better, to make it more market-friendly, and to help get funding and talent attached (actors or director/s or cinematographer/s, etc, which in turn could help attract more money). Some are around for the whole process.

"Production Executive" to me signals working on the studio side. You're looking for someone who works FOR Disney or Netflix or Amazon or Sony etc. Here you are a permanent employee somewhere. Sometimes studios develop ideas and find people to bring those ideas to life Other times, people bring ideas to studios, which then give feedback on the idea and help to fund the idea. Production Execs may also give feedback during filming and during the editing process, all the way through until the project is complete, in theaters, and available for home consumption. Studios have hierarchies and many departments, and where you land within that would determine what part of the filmmaking process you're involved with.

I think in your shoes, I would cast my net wide at first and be honest when reaching out: Hi I'm trying to learn more about producing and your particular path within the world of producing. Some of your meetings might make you think, 'Oh I don't want to do *that* kind of producing,' but even that will be helpful. You'll whittle it down. It's OK to arrive to a meeting and realize during or after that what's being put on the table is not your cuppa tea. If you're gracious, no one will be offended or upset. 

If Linked In seems intimidating, finding a few relevant Facebook Groups and posting a wall message just asking 'Hey Producers, I want to learn, can I buy anyone Zoom coffee?' could be a low-pressure way to start.

And back to the law degree, y'know, there is an obvious upside, which is that you'll be able to read a contract with so much more ease and insight than most of your colleagues, which will always be incredibly helpful as a Producer. Your lawyer hat will not go to waste.


----------



## Chris W (Apr 7, 2021)

RoseOfAberlone said:


> First time post - sorry if I'm violating any sort of etiquette here.


No etiquette violated! I wish people would post more threads and more often. Often people lurk in the shadows.


----------



## RoseOfAberlone (Apr 7, 2021)

llueve said:


> The Covid landscape must be making summer internships *especially* difficult to land right now, even with vaccinations rising. Ugh, sorry to hear it. On the upside...you have the summer off to go frolic with the film kids, maybe?
> 
> Let me know if this is too basic, but I think:
> 
> ...


Super helpful, thank you!

This is mostly in line with what I had assumed, but a detailed breakdown like this can be hard to dig up. "Whole process" producer seems most like what I'm interested in, but freelancing with a ton of debt is just a little terrifying without the backing of incredible wealth. Production company seems most attractive, but obviously still risky/scary without financing. I'm sure these concerns are not at all unique to my situation though.

I know you're not a producer, and you're wisely suggesting that I reach out to a variety of people - I absolutely am and will. I just want to get your thoughts while you're here, if you don't mind: I'd imagine there's some transitioning between producers and studio execs. Is it _uncommon _(not _unheard of_, I know it's been done and possible) for someone to start as a studio production exec (of some sort) and transition to freelance/startup? i.e. would it be wise for me to work my way into a studio to learn the ropes, pay off some debt, then transition to freelance/company? I know this is probably oversimplifying.

Also, if that's the goal, do you think a better film school option would be in Producing (e.g. Stark) or in Production?

Again, I really appreciate the advice and information here. It'll help me go into meetings just _slightly _less naïve. 

...

Last note, just in case anybody's lurking, internships have been pretty scarce, but for folks outside of LA or NYC, I've seen a number of opportunities that are remote which may not normally be available wherever you're at. Definitely worth taking a look and shooting your shot, I think.


----------



## RoseOfAberlone (Apr 7, 2021)

Chris W said:


> No etiquette violated! I wish people would post more threads and more often. Often people lurk in the shadows.


I get that. Best way to get an answer is to ask a question though 🤷‍♂️. Also, strangers on the internet can be really great sometimes (see _llueve_). I've seen at least one other law student on here trying to make the jump, so maybe somebody will stumble into an answer they're looking for here.


----------



## llueve (Apr 8, 2021)

RoseOfAberlone said:


> I'd imagine there's some transitioning between producers and studio execs. Is it _uncommon _(not _unheard of_, I know it's been done and possible) for someone to start as a studio production exec (of some sort) and transition to freelance/startup? i.e. would it be wise for me to work my way into a studio to learn the ropes, pay off some debt, then transition to freelance/company? I know this is probably oversimplifying.



This is a great question that I don't know the answer to at all. Producers of the World, Halp!

Post it as a separate thread maybe to get Producer eyeballs on it?

Working in post production as part of the editorial team, my relationship to studios has always felt a little distant. And the whole truth is... I have a negative view of studio people! I know, this is not fair! It is prejudiced! But I have many times gotten the impression that studio people don't understand how a film or TV show is a.c.t.u.a.l.l.y made, in a physical, practical sense. Order of operations. Time. Feasibility. Taste.
But!
Without studios, none of the projects I have worked on in the last 4 years would exist. So all those execs were still integral, which is why they don't deserve my judgment.



RoseOfAberlone said:


> Also, if that's the goal, do you think a better film school option would be in Producing (e.g. Stark) or in Production?


My guess and instinct would be that a Producing program (e.g. Stark) would be best, because it's more focused.

Some Producing programs, like AFI's, will still introduce you to all the elements of production by making you work as crew on a few student films (AFI's Cycle Films during Year 1). Maybe all Producing programs are like this?

But see, UNCSA only has MFAs in Producing, Writing, and Composing, so would you get any on-set time during the program? Hmm...
On the other hand, say you attend something like UT Austin's Production MFA. You'll learn about story and filmmaking, but will you feel prepared to take on a producing role? Like, do they teach people how to build and execute a budget so they can go on and Line Produce an indie? I don't know, you'd have to dig or ask folks who are aiming for a Producer track ( I did lots of MFA research, but aimed at writing ).

Any other questions, keep posting, I'm here!


----------



## filmcurious (May 1, 2021)

Jumping in here... I went to law school 20 years ago and am now mom of a prospective film school student, so this thread caught my eye. 

In case this is useful, one of my fellow law school grads (from a top-5 school) is now a senior development exec at a major studio/corporation. Honestly I have no idea how he made the jump, but I know his path went through acquisitions and distribution. We haven't been in touch for a few years, but I saw him on Facebook a few years ago holding an actual Oscar statue (I believe a film he helped acquire for his studio won Best Picture.)

If that sounds intriguing to you, read on: 

So far as I know, he had zero creative experience prior to law school or immediately afterwards. He had strong opinions and aesthetic preferences, though. He cared about film and had opinions! More importantly, though, he was a fierce law student -- very smart, one of the top of our class. He was also an inveterate networker, which is what I found most impressive about him. He just knew things. When he had questions, he asked. He made it his business to learn everything he could about whatever interested him and then ask the smartest questions in the room. (Except for mine, that is. Just keeping this real  )

Look, you've had a lot of school. Maybe too much. I would NOT go straight from a JD to an MFA. Overkill, my dear. And either at this point you're in debt up to your eyeballs, or you have a trust fund. Either way, you don't need an MFA; you need a job. You need to earn some actual money, and also learn about yourself and about life, and you'll do that after you graduate and not until then.

In the meantime, if I were you, i would 100% finish that degree and focus on whatever areas of the law interest you most. I mean, if you want to do what you love, start today, and that means following your nose while you are still in law school. Take a deep breath and listen to your gut. That might mean keeping an eye trained on coursework that might help you in the film industry, e.g. classes in entertainment law, intellectual property, and contract law. Even labor law, international law, whatever. You don't need to be expert in any of these but having a broad knowledge base could make you a lot more useful as a production exec when the time comes to spot issues. 

Of course, listening to your gut could also mean taking classes from the dynamic professor who is a great storyteller, and paying attention to what makes a story compelling, or just following your nose because who knows where it will lead you. Pay attention to where you are NOW. Meet people everywhere. Talk to everyone. Stop being dreamy-eyed about your future and start building a life in your _present_. 

Look for jobs. Then move to LA or New York because that is where you will find work with no film experience and a JD. Be determined to work in the film industry (or in television, if that would make you shed a dreamy tear, or whatever.) 

I am fully sympathetic to your plight: I have that top-5 JD and ended up choosing what I loved, which was art, and have now had a thriving career as an overqualified visual artist. For what it's worth, I began thriving when I stopped thinking about getting  the right credential and started teaching myself what I needed to know RIGHT NOW, getting out of my shell, talking to people, putting myself out there, and going for it. That's all there is for you to do, my dear. Network and learn -- which you 1000% do NOT need an additional advanced degree in order to do. 

You absolutely _must_ allow your heart into the process, while understanding that even those of us who do what we love do a great deal that we don't particularly enjoy. That's just fine! Nobody looooves every aspect of their work, just like nobody is ecstatic every moment of every day. So, yes to your heart, and yes to your JD. 

If film has your heart, then please, for pete's sake watch a TON of films. Form opinions about films. Then watch films about films. Watch videos. Follow critics on twitter and instagram and read everything they write. Learn about the industry. Which films get made? What are the big issues in film making today? What are the legal issues, the technological issues, the artistic issues, the economic/market issues? Do these issues interest you? Which ones?? You don't need a degree for this, just passion, curiosity. You need to be _interested_. 

And just as importantly: Be a full-fledged human. _Don't just be interested; be *interesting*._This is how you network: You need to offer something, and more than anything else, what you offer is YOU. 

I.e. "You absolutely MUST meet Rose of Aberlone, you have so much in common, you'll have so much to talk about." 

This is how the world works. Think not of what you need to get;  think of what you would OFFER. What are you good at? What does the world need of you? If there were an omniscient and omnipotent God who created you (stay with me here,) for what purpose would they have created you?

So: Stop fussing over the next (expensive) degree you will get, and start living your life. Now! Today. If you are interested in something, immerse yourself in it to the extent practicable. Work for pay. Get passionate. Get interested and be interesting. Introduce yourself to people -- i.e. network -- confident in the knowledge that they will be glad to meet you because of what you have to offer. If you are determined to work in film, then go ahead and do it. Make it happen. Learn what you need to on the fly. 

You've got this. 

Good luck!!


----------



## Chris W (May 2, 2021)

That was an absolutely amazing post! Thank you! Passion, conscientiousness, networking, and grit are really all that is needed to succeed in film (or anything really)

Do good work, show passion, and then you'll get recommended and it'll build from there. That's how I made my rise from intern to tech support to assistant editor to editor and now supervising producer/editor. (*total time from intern to full time editor was ~3 or 4 years)  Hard good work that leads to recommendations and people thinking of you when they want to hire people for a job.

In my 20 years in this business the longest stretch I've been without work has probably been 2 months.... And that was after a project I was on for a almost 2 years abruptly ended for crazy reasons so I hadn't been looking for my next gig and hadn't worked with other companies for a while. But it quickly caught up again.

Do good work and be passionate and you'll succeed in whatever you decide to do.

Oh and yes *FINISH YOUR LAW DEGREE!!!! 😉*


----------

